So I'm kinda digging Karsabi's ability, with the idea being that he uses the remaining TL from Homers to just reload turn after turn. He reloads, gets rid of WD token and takes a stress. Then uses Wired for stress rerolls and has GC.

But, in order to do that I'm going to have to learn a little bit about flanking. Drawing higher PS ships into an engagement with Vessery and QD, and having Karsabi come from the side where there's room enough for a TL.

Is this just a horrible idea or is it plausible? I'm not very experienced at this sort of flying, but I have done it once or twice.

Here's the list:

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!268:150,-1,17:-1:25:;70:140,-1,-1:33:17:;208:27,36,-1,203:42:31:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs

I have been trying something similar with an HLC Karsabi. From my experience, it's tough. His mid PS means he places before some of the more popular pilots, meaning you can't always have the advantage of starting him off away from the enemy.

I do think you have the right idea for the rest of the team. QD and Vessery can soak up attention away from Karsabi or deal sufficient damage in case Karsabi is the enemy's main target and he has to play kite. That's not a great role for him, but SLAM helps and you can still trigger his ability for defensive Wired rerolls.

6 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

I have been trying something similar with an HLC Karsabi. From my experience, it's tough. His mid PS means he places before some of the more popular pilots, meaning you can't always have the advantage of starting him off away from the enemy.

I do think you have the right idea for the rest of the team. QD and Vessery can soak up attention away from Karsabi or deal sufficient damage in case Karsabi is the enemy's main target and he has to play kite. That's not a great role for him, but SLAM helps and you can still trigger his ability for defensive Wired rerolls.

Thanks. Do you think maybe I should run him with Mangler Cannon and LB instead? It would mean I would have to shave 2 points off somewhere else.

Flanking is most effective when you have higher priority targets to take down. You have some here but they are also so beastly that your opponent might try to just go up on points and take Karsabi out first and hopefully have a full squad before taking on the other two. Flanking is a great maneuver to pull but also allows you to be outflanked. Can you still win if the flanker gets blown away before contributing? If you can't, flanking should not be your game plan.

My most effective flankers have been something like Backstabber, an alpha interceptor, N'dru... something that is both tempting to take out but not critical to the rest of the list. If my opponent focuses on the flanker they can either goosechase or just take the shots if the rest of my list can capitalize. If they do not take out the flanker, all of their special abilities make them punch much higher than their points allow. Both are good things for me and bad for my opponent.

I usually flank from side. Get to range one. Fire 5 red. Roll 4 blanks and one ?. Then get laughed at.

33 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Thanks. Do you think maybe I should run him with Mangler Cannon and LB instead? It would mean I would have to shave 2 points off somewhere else.

Not sure on this one. Your reloading trick with him sounds promising and it keeps him cheaper. If you can, try it both ways and see which does/feels better.

So this takes a bit of practice.

• You might decide two of your three ships are going to be next to each other starting in one place and then one will line up on the opposite corner.
• Its also entirely possible to flank someone without going fast up the side of a board
• If you think they are going to joust in to a particular spot you can actually just walk along the edge of your side of the board and then turn in when you think you can dive behind them or from an out of arc angle.
• This is easier if they commit to moving towards a particular corner of the board.
• In my book if im placing 2 of my 3 ships last the absolute worst place (for them) that my opponent can go early is straight up the middle of the board since I can basically guarantee a flank with minimal decisions
• This is particularly true against two ship lists for instance Nym/Miranda...if they go straight up the middle of the board I can all but guarantee 2 of my ships will be out of arc and on target right away unless they pull hard right or left, in which case I can just settle for flanking with w/e ship(s) they turn away from
• I typically flank with the ship that I think my opponent won't target first or use the one they want to target first to pull them into a spot were more than 1 of my ships can actually flank.
• Its not really an exact science. If they set up all in one corner I throw my flanker in the opposite corner and 5 straight up the board or 3 bank...boosting or slamming in both cases.
• In some cases you can kinda tell based on rock placement that they will walk horizontally up the board in which case its sometimes worth gambling and diving straight at them even if they lined up across from your flanker.
• Its risky but can put ships like the Ghost and Assaj in bad spots since alot of players move horizontal to force their opponent to commit. Rocks can give a clue to what their choice will be.
• The part that takes practice is learning how fast the other 2 ships in your list need to go to arrive on target at the same time as the flanker joins the fight. Thats a matter of reps ultimately.
• The subtle adjustments with boosts and barrel rolls that I do with Vader/Quickdraw for instance are much different than how I approach the game with Inquistor/Quickdraw/Sabacc.
• How fast each of the ships in your list are really dictates alot of how those first few rounds will play out.
• It typically comes down to you cant go to slow, particularly with Quickdraw since he doesnt have the boost to "catchup", even though he wants to go slow and you can go slow if your opponent lets you...
• It also means that you need to recognize when to bail out and when your flanker actually just became bait to draw an opponent into your other ships.
• The nice thing about a Gunboat like kerisabi is that as strong and fast as it is....its kinda not a more important target than Quickdraw or Vessery.
• Last comment....there is nothing more impressive to me in X-Wing than watching a player take multiple ships 3+ up the board early and measure all the speed and angles of their movements so perfectly that they arrive with one of their opponents ships in Arc with several of their opponents ships not having a shot without even having to reposition on the turn where combat begins.
• Since starting to play the game seriously in July this process of taking multiple arcd ships and moving them in near perfect synchronization turn to turn and maintaining arc on one target has become the thing I enjoy the most about the game....its why 3x Strikers + Ace, 3x Nus + Ace, Trip Ace, and 2xAce + something, can be so much fun to use. Its also why im super jelly at how good the best Gunboat and Z-95 swarm players are at pulling this off. I realize its not flanking but the concepts are pretty similar.
• Also....all of the things I just said are reasons why I know I am bad at X-Wing.

A couple things to add...

• One of the best ways to learn to flank and bait in my opinion is actually to run Kylo Silencer or Whisper & an Upsilon Shuttle.
• Depending on how you kit them out you just put them in opposite corners
• After a few games youll start to learn pretty quick that the decisions you make to flank or bait completely change the outcome of every game.
• I suggest Whisper with Rebel Captive & Palp Kylo Upsilon with Engine Upgrade to really practice this on hard mode and figure it out as quickly as possible.
• If you can do it with that combo it will make Quickdraw/Vess/Boat feel very easy though again comfort level with the dial can't be explained it has to be gained.

*Seriously all of this advice is probably wrong, I have no idea how this game works.

Help us Kessel Run!!???

2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Not sure on this one. Your reloading trick with him sounds promising and it keeps him cheaper. If you can, try it both ways and see which does/feels better.

I was thinking Stealth Device on Vessery. 4 green + focus + evade might be real good for dodging damage. To do that I'd need to go with Adaptability for the EPTs on Vess and QD, which is fine I think. I'm not too concerned with PS 11 on QD, but losing Crackshot on Vess might be a thing. Probably not because I don't think there's a lot of high agility stuff out there right now.

16 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

I was thinking Stealth Device on Vessery. 4 green + focus + evade might be real good for dodging damage. To do that I'd need to go with Adaptability for the EPTs on Vess and QD, which is fine I think. I'm not too concerned with PS 11 on QD, but losing Crackshot on Vess might be a thing. Probably not because I don't think there's a lot of high agility stuff out there right now.

SD can get some good value on a x7, but that could push people to go after Karsabi as the easier target, like @Rakky Wistol was talking about.

PS 10 QD is still solid and I agree with Crackshot.

42 minutes ago, Fuzzywookie said:

I usually flank from side. Get to range one. Fire 5 red. Roll 4 blanks and one ?. Then get laughed at.

Are... are you me?

44 minutes ago, Fuzzywookie said:

I usually flank from side. Get to range one. Fire 5 red. Roll 4 blanks and one ?. Then get laughed at.

Thats because your a wookie.

Also flanking with Wulfwarro takes guts. Well played.

Dilly Dilly!

13 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

SD can get some good value on a x7, but that could push people to go after Karsabi as the easier target, like @Rakky Wistol was talking about.

PS 10 QD is still solid and I agree with Crackshot.

Sounds good. Mrs. Rick and I will be playing tonight, and if I like this list I may take it to a tournament early March. I'll be doing Homer Karsabi with Wired and GC, Vessery with Adaptability, Stealth and x7, and Quickdraw with Adaptability, FCS, LWF, Title, and Primed Thrusters for 100.

She has been liking this list lately and will fly it tonight:

53 minutes ago, Fuzzywookie said:

I usually flank from side. Get to range one. Fire 5 red. Roll 4 blanks and one ?. Then get laughed at.

You need rage

I flunked flank.

A very good player once explained flanking like this and it’s still the best way to explain it, I think.

You don’t decide who your flanker is, your opponent does.

The best you can do is practice multiple approach vectors that can converge at the same time and that one or two of them will be flanking but it will depend more on where your opponent commits more than the one you decide is the flanker. You can influence the decision by having, as some have said, hard to ignore threats or approaching with mobile ships around rocks.

I used this approach recently where I had QD, Inq and a Mangler Rho approaching from three angles. My opponent’s angles made the Rho into the flanker and the Rho got three or four easy rounds of shooting while the Inq bailed after one shot to return later and QD took the attention.

5 minutes ago, AlexW said:

A very good player once explained flanking like this and it’s still the best way to explain it, I think.

You don’t decide who your flanker is, your opponent does.

The best you can do is practice multiple approach vectors that can converge at the same time and that one or two of them will be flanking but it will depend more on where your opponent commits more than the one you decide is the flanker. You can influence the decision by having, as some have said, hard to ignore threats or approaching with mobile ships around rocks.

I used this approach recently where I had QD, Inq and a Mangler Rho approaching from three angles. My opponent’s angles made the Rho into the flanker and he got three or four easy rounds of shooting while the Inq bailed after one shot to return later and QD took the attention.

I agree.

Also want to state for the record that Quickdraw, Inq, Rho is a ridiculously underplayed list.

Its excellent.

You can basically switch between the Rho and Sabacc forever and never get bored.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

I agree.

Also want to state for the record that Quickdraw, Inq, Rho is a ridiculously underplayed list.

Its excellent.

You can basically switch between the Rho and Sabacc forever and never get bored.

Yeah, the nice thing about the Rho is that, with linked battery, it gets at least one mod that Fenn can't touch. It also gives the list some more health, but as you say there are a lot of things you can sub in there.

I tried this last night and never got a single shot off. It was horrible, mostly because I just really flubbed everything up.

So I checked the numbers and I thing VI is a better option for Karsabi over Wired. 4 red dice with GC (without spending TL) is an average of 2.9 hits, and with Wired it puts it up to 3.3. I feel like that small a bump isn't worth it, verses a better chance of actually getting shots.

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 7:44 PM, AlexW said:

A very good player once explained flanking like this and it’s still the best way to explain it, I think.

You don’t decide who your flanker is, your opponent does.

The best you can do is practice multiple approach vectors that can converge at the same time and that one or two of them will be flanking but it will depend more on where your opponent commits more than the one you decide is the flanker. You can influence the decision by having, as some have said, hard to ignore threats or approaching with mobile ships around rocks.

I used this approach recently where I had QD, Inq and a Mangler Rho approaching from three angles. My opponent’s angles made the Rho into the flanker and the Rho got three or four easy rounds of shooting while the Inq bailed after one shot to return later and QD took the attention.

Hi everyone, sorry to raise the 2 month old dead here, but I'm still working on trying to learn how to flank. I flew QD, a Delta, and Vynder at the CaC over the weekend and did okay. I really felt like the list succeeded or failed based solely on my flying skill, and unfortunately some big mistakes left me finishing the day 2-4. I still had a ton of fun, because Vynder may just be the most fun pilot in the game for me.

Anyways, back to flanking. When I did it well, I played really well - my two wins were 100-0. I think I learned a lot, the first game I played there was only my fourth game playing the list, and I think I'd like to give it some more reps. So Vynder is best when you can get a good flank in, and if you can anticipate your opponent's moves she's fantastic at dodging arcs (my goodness she loves flying against lower PS).

In hindsight I'm wondering if I should change my initial setup. I put all my ships together to start, and sent Vynder off by herself and kept the other two together. I learned on a couple of occasions that it's very easy to go too fast with Vynder. Anyways, I was looking this morning on how to flank and ran across this question that I asked a couple months ago. I reviewed the replies and @AlexW 's stood out. The opponent chooses the flanker. I'm thinking that putting QD and Delta in the middle and Vynder on the opposite side of the opponent is the right way to go. Vynder has no problem catching up to the fight or running away if need be, and it's much easier for my opponent to get tangled up with my jousters if they start in the middle of the board.

Sorry for the rambling, this Biggless version of X-Wing is much more fun but I feel like I'm learning the game all over again. Any help would be appreciated.

8 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

I reviewed the replies and @AlexW 's stood out. The opponent chooses the flanker.

This is very true. You present a choice, they get to decide which to engage and thus which flank to engage.

Gunboats are relatively good for this because if it's clear they're the target you can SLAM away out of trouble while the rest of your force engages in their flank. Balancing the two sides of your squad is very important. If you present a bulletproof ace as your main force and a glass cannon as your flank then all you're doing is giving the opponent an easy choice for who to kill first.

It's also worth working out WHY you want to flank. What's your goal?

Is it to have a ship attack at a specific range or arc?

Is it to keep one ship safe to last into the endgame?

Is it to avoid focus fire, or split the enemy's focus?

Is it to avoid approaching the enemy from a certain direction?

Is it to enable focus firing yourself?

Just asking how you flank feels kind of cargo culty - I need to flank because worlds winners do it, so therefore to win worlds I must flank.

Some lists, both yours and your opponent's, simply don't allow for or encourage it.

@Stay On The Leader , interesting. I wonder if any of my ships fall into those categories? Bullet-proof ace or glass cannon? I don't think so, Vynder with a focus and a third green die isn't nearly as fragile a normal GUNBOAT, and QD and a Defender just seem like workhorse jousters. Just wondering.

@thespaceinvader , My reason for flanking with Vynder is that she excels when she has room to move and SLAM, and because I don't want her getting shot at in the first engagement. So three of your reasons are dead-on as to why I want to flank. I want Vynder to avoid initial focus fire, keep a her safe for mid to end-game, if she's coming from the side range 2-3 seems easier to achieve, and lastly if she's coming from the side she can SLAM the heck out of dodge next turn if need be (hopefully no arcs on her so she doesn't have to PTL for a focus and can do 3 speed moves). I really want the opponent shooting at a cheap Defender (29) that's hard to hit or a cheap QD (33) that will shoot back if he gets hit.

OPTION A...

Option B...

If your ship is pretty rugged it doesn't need to flank, it can joust.

Flanking is usually the preserve of glass cannons, things that don't really want to be getting fired on but which can do damage if the opponent leaves them alone.

23 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Hi everyone, sorry to raise the 2 month old dead here, but I'm still working on trying to learn how to flank.

My recent experience with flanking is something I've been working on with my version of Palp Aces, typically when fighting against harpoon lists to avoid explosions. Starting from one corner, I use the Upsilon as a juicy target, stall with Inquisitor (1 hard, BR back, 1 hard, BR back), and zoom Vader either around the center obstacle (I place one there) and turn in, or try to K-Turn behind the opponent. I faced 3 harpoon lists this weekend at the CAC, and beat two, lost to the one guy who ended up going 6-0 and winning it. One win though, I consider contested because we screwed up the rules on harpoons so I'm gonna see if he wants a rematch next time I see him. Most people expect you to self bump, or 0 hard with the Palp shuttle, but instead I get aggressive and up in people faces to throw 5 die attacks or cause a traffic jam bump fest which my Aces then exploit coming in from the flanks.