Question I have is, if your ship attack a ship that has harpoon condition on it with Advance Homing Missile what triggers first? The harpoon condition or the missile (where you cancel all die to add 1 faceup on defender).

FAQ V4.4.1 - New ruling, Harpooned! always triggers first if able (i.e. there must be at least 1 uncancelled critical hit result).

10 minutes ago, ZealuxMyr said:

FAQ V4.4.1 - New ruling, Harpooned! always triggers first if able (i.e. there must be at least 1 uncancelled critical hit result).

I do not believe that any such ruling exists.

29 minutes ago, JimbonX said:

Question I have is, if your ship attack a ship that has harpoon condition on it with Advance Homing Missile what triggers first? The harpoon condition or the missile (where you cancel all die to add 1 faceup on defender).

Its a timing issue based upon initiative. If the attacker has initiative, then AHM triggers first, cancelling all the results. If the defender has initiative, Harpooned! triggers first, looking for an uncancelled critical result.

Also, to be safe, the faceup damage from AHM doesn't trigger the Harpooned! condition (As one guy here locally tried to argue...).

3 minutes ago, Innese said:

Its a timing issue based upon initiative. If the attacker has initiative, then AHM triggers first, cancelling all the results. If the defender has initiative, Harpooned! triggers first, looking for an uncancelled critical result.

Also, to be safe, the faceup damage from AHM doesn't trigger the Harpooned! condition (As one guy here locally tried to argue...).

Are you sure? Isn't Harpoon effected by a crit result that hits before cancel all dice?

Just now, JimbonX said:

Are you sure? Isn't Harpoon effected by a crit result that hits before cancel all dice?

Harpooned! needs a literal crit result on a die to trigger. AHM deals a faceup damage card, which is technically the normal result of an uncancelled crit hitting hull, but its not the same thing in terms of game mechanics.

10 minutes ago, Innese said:

Harpooned! needs a literal crit result on a die to trigger. AHM deals a faceup damage card, which is technically the normal result of an uncancelled crit hitting hull, but its not the same thing in terms of game mechanics.

So if I get this right:

Defender has harpoon condition

Attacker attack with Advanced Homing missile. Modify 1 die to crit, result hit hit crit.

Defender blank

All the dice are canceled and adds 1 faceup damage on defender.

Harpoon is not activated due to advance homing missile's "cancel all die"?

Just now, JimbonX said:

So if I get this right:

Defender has harpoon condition

Attacker attack with Advanced Homing missile. Modify 1 die to crit, result hit hit crit.

Defender blank

All the dice are canceled and adds 1 faceup damage on defender.

Harpoon is not activated due to advance homing missile's "cancel all die"?

It depends.

In you scenario, if the attacker has initiative, then AHM triggers first, dealing 1 faceup damage and then cancelling all results. Harpooned! then checks for an uncancelled crit, sees none, and doesn't trigger.

However, if the defender has initiative, then Harpooned! first looks for the uncancelled crit, sees one, and triggers. Afterwards, AHM triggers, dealing 1 faceup damage and then cancelling all results.

This is in the FAQ same interaction as with TLT. Harpooned triggers first.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

This is in the FAQ same interaction as with TLT. Harpooned triggers first.

Nowhere in the FAQ does it state that Harpooned triggers first, the FAQ merely says that the crit being cancelled at a later step doesn't prevent it from triggering.

1 hour ago, Innese said:

Nowhere in the FAQ does it state that Harpooned triggers first, the FAQ merely says that the crit being cancelled at a later step doesn't prevent it from triggering.

Actually, it does. From the FAQ...

Quote

Harpooned!

When an attack hits a ship (after "Compare Results," before "Deal Damage") with the Harpooned! condition and has 1 or more uncanceled CRIT results, the condition resolves at that time (see "Timing Chart for Performing an Attack" on page 8). Note that this occurs even if those CRIT results are subsequently canceled, as in the case of Twin Laser Turret, Ion Cannon, Jamming Beam, etc, but not if the CRIT results are altered or removed at an earlier step, such as by Heavy Laser Cannon's effect.

In essence: the "Harpooned!" condition checks, and if necessary, triggers after step 6 on the timing chart, BEFORE step 7. Per this ruling, Harpooned can trigger on any attack that cancels dice effects AFTER checking to see if the attack hits. The dice-cancelling effect of Advanced Homing Missile is precisely similar to Ion Cannon, Twin Laser Turret, and the like. The exception that is mentioned involves attacks or situations that would cause any critical results to be cancelled BEFORE you check to see if the attack hits (such as Heavy Laser Cannon, Accuracy Corrector, etc).

Important, though, is that as @Innese says, you need to have an actual critical damage result on dice ... just taking critical damage from, say, a Proton Bomb won't set it off.

13 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Actually, it does. From the FAQ...

The FAQ says nothing about it triggering first, though. It merely gives the timing window in which it occurs, along with the clarification that if an effect cancels results after this timing, the condition still triggers.

46 minutes ago, Innese said:

The FAQ says nothing about it triggering first, though. It merely gives the timing window in which it occurs, along with the clarification that if an effect cancels results after this timing, the condition still triggers.

I'm sorry, but that's exactly what the FAQ does say. Harpooned! is triggered before dice would be cancelled by TLT.

By rights, it ought to be by initiative. Same as Genius and Trajectory Simulator ought to work together. However, both were explicitly changed by FFG in the FAQ, because they represented untenable situations. Genius was just a broken-powerful combo. The Harpooned!/"cancel all dice results" interaction wasn't about power, but about fundamental fairness. In a mirror match of TLTs and Harpoon Missiles, it's fundamentally unfair if one player's TLTs can explode Harpooned! but the other player's cannot, in a way beyond most initiative-based interactions.

If you need something to hang a hat on, it's literally impossible for TLT to hit, and thus trigger the "cancel all dice results" unless there is an uncancelled hit or crit. Since there was an uncancelled crit, Harpooned! will trigger.