So yeah, simple question why would you ever use Jyn over Cham? Cham shuts down 3 turns of commands in the best case while Jyn does only shut down commands for one turn. And you even only get a 50 % chance to guess them. Is there something i miss about her? (Aside from the extremely niche victory token gimmick)

Skilled First Officer and other such cards can limit Cham's effectiveness. Not so with Jyn.

I would argue coms net and taking a token rd1 is more common that SFO cause of the heavy competition in that slot.

But yes, common easy counters exist to them both.

The one time ever you net a capture the VIP token with Jyn is going to be so joyful as to justify taking her in the occasional friendly game I guess.

Jyn is just as effective against command 1 ships as command 3?

I dunno, take both. Change the dials so they’ll never clear the worst raid token. Or Cham the ISD and Jyn the Comms Net flotilla.

Cham is stronger against ships with deep command dial stacks. Jyn's Raid tokens are generally better against lower-Command ships, and those ships have a harder time stashing cautionary tokens due to having a shallower bucket.

With big ships coming back into vogue, Cham seems overall stronger at the moment. Doesn't mean it will be that way forever or in every meta, though.

Cham is generally useful. As in he just kinda works against anything preferably big ships

Jyn makes an interesting card if you bid for 1st. You shut down commands (maybe) with Raid tokens and you can make Blockade Run, Capture the VIP, and Intel Sweep less certain for your opponents. Sort of a weak counter-objective, counter-command card?

But Jyns effect basically always only lasts for one turn. Everyone will just discard the dial, so she basically only hinders the enemy for one turn. And that not even for sure, as you can just guess 2 out of 4 commands. Granted its not that hard, but Cham costs just one point more, is safer and can last for multiple turns. I guess you could make the argument that Cham gives the enemy at least a Dial to reveal, while Jyn completey removes your ability for commands for one turn. I still dont get why they came up with this (granted, very cool) mechanic when its just much worse than a existing mechanic. But maybe im just to negativr on this, i haven tried her out yet. Just saw what Cham can do to a ISD and compared that to Jyn. But it seems Cham is also better against any ship, because he is safer and doesn't allow for a token-easy-way-out.

Note that Charm doesn't prevent from resolving commands.

Jyn is better against command 1 ships who have already activated this turn..

to whom Cham does nothing.

cant ever give up free victory points too

39 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Cham is generally useful. As in he just kinda works against anything preferably big ships

Jyn makes an interesting card if you bid for 1st. You shut down commands (maybe) with Raid tokens and you can make Blockade Run, Capture the VIP, and Intel Sweep less certain for your opponents. Sort of a weak counter-objective, counter-command card?

Can you use Jyn on Intel Sweep? I though it removed the token from play instead of assigning it to the ship...

Just now, OlaphOfTheNorth said:

Can you use Jyn on Intel Sweep? I though it removed the token from play instead of assigning it to the ship...

If an objective ship is nominated, you can Jyn it.

In a CC where Cham is already taken.

Why should you use either one? Just destroy the ship instead.

This is actually something I wish Armada could do better with. Control fleets. I wish there was more/better support and upgrades to actually field a fleet designed to remove options from your opponent. The Interdictor is the best example of an attempt at a control build. Every time I try to make a fleet work, I realize I invest too much points into trying to control my opponent instead of actually killing my opponent. For a while, I tried getting a Slicer Tool Tractor Beam flotilla working because it's the perfect control mechanism for Admo and Demo. But instead of being annoying, the flotilla would just die instead.

During wave 6, offensive upgrades would always beat defensive upgrades, unless you stack a bunch of defensive upgrades like RBD, Lando, and Admo. For the most part, if you take a turbolaser, it's going to be effective every game.

I wish Cham was more effective, but the ship carrying Cham tends to go on a suicide run just to be effective. Meh. I want control, not trading up.

Jyn is a cham

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Why should you use either one? Just destroy the ship instead.

This is actually something I wish Armada could do better with. Control fleets. I wish there was more/better support and upgrades to actually field a fleet designed to remove options from your opponent. The Interdictor is the best example of an attempt at a control build. Every time I try to make a fleet work, I realize I invest too much points into trying to control my opponent instead of actually killing my opponent. For a while, I tried getting a Slicer Tool Tractor Beam flotilla working because it's the perfect control mechanism for Admo and Demo. But instead of being annoying, the flotilla would just die instead.

During wave 6, offensive upgrades would always beat defensive upgrades, unless you stack a bunch of defensive upgrades like RBD, Lando, and Admo. For the most part, if you take a turbolaser, it's going to be effective every game.

I wish Cham was more effective, but the ship carrying Cham tends to go on a suicide run just to be effective. Meh. I want control, not trading up.

Every game I've ever played where control elements are strong enough to be their own thing instead of garnish for some other archetype has been plagued with bad play experiences for a lot of people playing it. I understand why you want control elements to be stronger, but most people playing games recreationally don't spend a bunch of time and money to come out for a game where the other player tells them they don't get to do what they were looking forward to doing all week.

Just now, Snipafist said:

Every game I've ever played where control elements are strong enough to be their own thing instead of garnish for some other archetype has been plagued with bad play experiences for a lot of people playing it. I understand why you want control elements to be stronger, but most people playing games recreationally don't spend a bunch of time and money to come out for a game where the other player tells them they don't get to do what they were looking forward to doing all week.

Fair enough. I just feel the current control aspects are so weak there is no point in taking them. How many times has Cham, Tractor Beams, G-8, Grav Well, Grav Shift, Titus, Isard, Konstantine, or Flechette won a regionals? I leave out Slicer Tools because it is undoubtedly the best control upgrade only because it triggers after moving. I'd expect someone to have won with it.

Maybe it's for the best, but I don't like having a handful of upgrades that are entirely useless.

I really dont know about the data (tournament statistics, results, etc) but in my experience the interdictor can be a very strong control element. Konstantine just won me a game against a Raddus MC75 because i was able to slow it down so it doesnt get into black range. Got much more benefit out of Konstantine than i would have from Motti that game. Flechettes are strong too, but need a good setup. Titus and Isard are not really dangerous but sometimes they are useful. Isard might see more play with the new Raid mechanics. Cham is deadly, in the same game i mentioned above Cham was brought in via Profundity Raddus MC75 (first player) and ruined my ISDs commands. Also in the same game inquisitor combined with Tractor Beams saved my ISDs ***.

I'd say those mechanics require more pratice than simple Vader and Ackbar Shoot'em up fleets. But i wouldnt say they are weak.

50 minutes ago, >kkj said:

Isard might see more play with the new Raid mechanics.

You know, I honestly hadn't thought of that, but that is a solid combination of things for 26 points (Isard is 3, right? I'm not looking her up, haha)

Jyn removes a dial, cham just changes it. Cham often also only affects 1 dial less if the ship has already activated. Pretty similar those 2.

22 minutes ago, geek19 said:

You know, I honestly hadn't thought of that, but that is a solid combination of things for 26 points ( Isard is 3, right ? I'm not looking her up, haha)

Yep.

And agreed, I hadn't thought of that either. Good idea, @>kkj .

... is “winning a regional” our sole measure of success, now?

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

... is “winning a regional” our sole measure of success, now?

No, "winning every regional" is apparently the standard.

15 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

No, "winning every regional" is apparently the standard.

So, NOT Konstantine?

Complaining about something on the forums is a measure of success.