Wanted to preface this with I'm calling this "army" levies because I have my main Daqan host, this is my secondary army built of what is left over from the collection. I want both armies to work independently, and no proxying. Once Scouts come out I'll have more than enough for better options but in the meantime I'm trying to find something that is still strong. I've made a few attempts, no really happy with the first version, so thought I'd see what others thought before I try plan B.

What's available (in Trays):

8x Spearmen

2x Cav

4x Crossbowmen

2x Golems

1x Kari

2x IC minus 1 Lance Corporal Card

Original List:

2x2 Spearmen with Citadel Weapons Master, Rallying Cornicern, and Tempered Steel (45 pts)

2x2 Spearmen with Citadel Weapons Master, Rallying Cornicern, and Tempered Steel (45pts)

1x1 Kari with F Dice (38pts)

1x1 Rune Golem (17pts)

3x1 Crossbowmen with Rank (31pts)

2x1 Cavalry with Rank (24pts)

Idea is the spearmen are identical so they can be mutually supportive, neither is a greater priority for the enemy, and still provide enough offense while only being a 2 threat unit. Golem blocks for the Crossbowmen, Kari primarily snipes and can melee when closed in on, Cav attempt to flank. It's worth mentioning they have primarily been matching up against a fairly blight heavy Waiqar list in my testing.

Initial AAR: Happy with the list overall, however I feel I need to adjust the spearmen, and find points for wind rune on the cav. Tempered steel has been mostly nonexistent because the rallying corn is always removing blight, and surges have just been light in my testing. Really want to try wind rune on the 2x1 cav, as I feel they MUST be flanking/maneuvering out of missile LOS to up their damage and drastically increase their survivability.

Alternative List (Have not playtested yet):

1x1 Kari w/ Dice

2x2 Spearmen w/ CWM and Trumpets

2x2 Spearmen w/ CWM and Trumpets

1x1 Rune Golem

2x1 Cav w/ Rank and Wind Rune

3x1 Crossbowmen w/ Rank and Rally Corn

Comparative Pros and Cons: Cav much more maneuverable but more expensive as well for a 2 tray, Crossbowmen have to stay closer to Spears to help remove blight, Spearmen more maneuverable with trumpets but decrease in possible offense, and no longer have a useful modifier at 3 init attack. Admittedly I could just keep the original list and swap 2x tempered steel for wind rune.

Could also try the second list but keep tempered steel on both spears, and trade CWM's for Dispatch Runners. 3 init Modifier becomes relevant again, regularly 3x attacks by 2 threat spearmen per round (would have to juggle with inspiration tokens or late attack after rally for a 4th, think 3 per turn and alternating the DR's is probably the better way to go) and keep tempered steel for the added damage.

Thoughts? Any ideas for options are welcome (minus spearstars) as long as they are within the parameters of available units.

I would say that if you are up against heavy blight then with the first list I would drop the two tempered steel (you already said they were rarely used) and try out the latari training for kari. It can get her up in melee faster and hopefully halt the blight factor earlier.

One thing to try would be:

3x2 Spearmen with Citadel Weapons Master and Tempered Steel

2x1 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen

Get a bigger block of infantry up front and use the 2x1 to follow them and to keep tempered steel ready.

I think the Weapons Master is a poor investment on a 2-threat unit. Maybe on the 3x2, but even then I think I'd prefer the Lance Corporal. Uses for small units of Spearmen, as I see it: host a wizard, carry a Rallying Cornicen, or act as a cheap anchor. You could try assigning a Golem to each unit of Spearmen specifically to flank whatever engages them? Or maybe just use the pair as a guard for the Crossbows (I'm planning to try this). What do you think of this

Spearmen [40] 3x2
Lance Corporal [6]
Shield Wall [5]
Total Unit Cost: 51

Spearmen [18] 2x1
Total Unit Cost: 18

Rune Golems [17] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 17

Oathsworn Cavalry [20] 2x1
Rank Discipline [4]
Total Unit Cost: 24

Heavy Crossbowmen [27] 3x1
Tempered Steel [3]
Rank Discipline [4]
Total Unit Cost: 34

Kari Wraithstalker [32] 1x1
Fortunas Dice [6]
Total Unit Cost: 38

Rune Golems [17] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 17

The 3x2 Spearmen are a flexible frontline unit, The 2x1 Spearmen plus Golem might make a solid guard while the Crossbows output excellent ranged damage, The Cav opportunistically look for a ranged unit to harass or a flank to charge, Kari can hang out near a unit for some cover, and the second Golem can do... something.

@flightmaster101 Might have to give that a try again, did it once, don't remember what was on the 3x2 with the 2x1 supporting. I think what the problem ended up being was that with no other high threat unit, the 3x2 was easier to focus down. It was like a weaker spearstar, and I already don't like spearstars. But definitely worth another try.

@Bhelliom Agreed the CWM is extremely costly for a 4 tray unit, just trying to find ways to up the damage output without that being my only truly threatening unit. My only personal problem with running it as a 3x2 with Lance and Shield is that's how I run my spearmen in the main army, and as I think that truly is the best/most versatile way to run them, so I would kind of like a little variety.

@Xquer While I do like Latari Training, I think I'm of the opinion right now that it's too many points with FDice, and FDice are better for the same points. I also felt previously that it actually rides that middle ground of where you're jack of all trades master of none with Kari, as if you can't decide if you want to be a melee fighter or a ranged fighter, but if you are proc'ing Latari Training you are doing neither well.

To be fair, I didn't really get into the heavy blight Waiqar list from before, but right now it's 2x 3x2 Reanimates with SCL and Ardus with a 2x1 CI Archers behind him, just in terms of blight units. The 3x2's can usually maintain LOS to blight SOMEBODY even when engaged, unless by another 3 threat, and Ardus and archers can pile it on as well.

I think my next attempts will be some type of 3x2 with a 2x1 supporting with enough rallying support to keep the 3x2 effective, and the double dispatch runner 2x2's.

Sidenote I saw someone else's list sometime the past week who had a marching corn on their crossbowmen, had never thought of that before but definitely want to try that some time, could keep your crossbowmen shooting from turn 2 onward, being able to shift targets.

5 minutes ago, jcshep19 said:

Might have to give that a try again, did it once, don't remember what was on the 3x2 with the 2x1 supporting. I think what the problem ended up being was that with no other high threat unit, the 3x2 was easier to focus down. It was like a weaker spearstar, and I already don't like spearstars. But definitely worth another try.

Looks like you have xbows too, you can put the rallying cornicen on them. I would add some units of cavalry and get rid of golems personally. I think a 6 tray unit of spearment with green horn/+1 def would make a great tarpit and stay alive long enough to get your cavalry around.

1 hour ago, flightmaster101 said:

Looks like you have xbows too, you can put the rallying cornicen on them. I would add some units of cavalry and get rid of golems personally. I think a 6 tray unit of spearment with green horn/+1 def would make a great tarpit and stay alive long enough to get your cavalry around.

Green horn? Yeah one of the options I’ll try puts the rallying cornicen on the xbows instead, just means they have to stay closer to the spearmen as opposed to operating more independently with a blocker.

I agree Cav>Golems, unfortunately my other 6 trays are tied up in the main army, and it won’t be until scouts come out that I can completely get rid of golems.

My main is Kari, Hawthorne, 3x2 Spears w/ LC and SW, 3x2 Cav, and 4x1 Latari with TS and CQT.

The idea is to make a list that has a fighting chance against that (though not specifically tailored to it) with what’s listed above.

4 minutes ago, jcshep19 said:

Green horn?

White skill to use the cornicen, on both spearmen and xbows. He also works range 1-3 so you dont have to hug units together. It's worth a try!

Let us know how it turns out!

A list that's kinda of a Daqan Boogeyman in my area is roughly this

3x2 Spearmen, Lance Corporal, Tempered

3x2 Spearmen, Lance Corporal, Tempered

3x1 Crossbowmen, Rank discipline, Marching Cornicern, Tempered Steel

3x1 Crossbowmen, Rank Discipline, Marching Cornicern, Tempered Steel

2x2 Oathsworn, Bull pennon, Tempered Steel

It's got an impressive toolkit, and has been tough to nail down answers for it when in the hands of a decent player, much less someone skilled. I understand that you don't own all of these trays, but I hope the list Sparks some ideas!