18 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

I took most of my damage on the Joust, but as soon as they had to start turning with aces it was over.

The Tallon roll did give me an extra K Turn option that was hard to predict though, so that might've helped.

Did they fly as a formation? If so, that was probably their downfall. Aces can easily skirt formations. If you scatter them, though, you can do some wiley things. They do have the 1 hard turn, which is pretty useful.

17 minutes ago, viedit said:

*IF* these come in at 19 points

They're only 1 PS less than the 21-point PS 2, they're not coming in at 19.

Then again, FFG loves power creep, so...

I've had a lot of fun with 4 T-65s, particularly since the new Flight Astros. If I can put five on the table, I will. I have taken down some of the past meta lists with it, though well... TLT and I don't speak kindly of each other any more...

I love classic X-Wings. LOVE them. Especially Porkins, that rotund suicidal rascal.

But five flavourless, move first shoot last X-Wings? At least a TIE swarm can barrell roll.........

28 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

I've also run 5 Cartel Marauders, albeit before Vaksai came out. Not terribly successful. Currently still deciding on whether I need to buy 3 more thread tracers (only available in the TAP) and 3 more Contraband Cybernetics or to stick with my 7 ship version (2 Vaksais, 4 Z95s, and Sunny Bounder) for when I feel like flying a swarm.

But 5 X-wings, if they can have FAA and Integrated Astromech, will be better. 4 baby blues are pretty decent.

I've done a bit of flying with quad blues with FAA and definitely think it's got worth. 5 T65s would be even better.

33 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

They're only 1 PS less than the 21-point PS 2, they're not coming in at 19.

Then again, FFG loves power creep, so...

I'm 99% sure the Renegade Refit has a negative cost.

10 minutes ago, eMeM said:

I'm 99% sure the Renegade Refit has a negative cost.

Probably not. I'd imagine it lets you take Integrated and S-Foils (both presumably at 0) and maybe another mod, but I'd imagine they're banking on S-Foils, Integrated and Flight Assist to give you the value differences given how undercosted at least 2 of those are.

11 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Probably not. I'd imagine it lets you take Integrated and S-Foils (both presumably at 0) and maybe another mod, but I'd imagine they're banking on S-Foils, Integrated and Flight Assist to give you the value differences given how undercosted at least 2 of those are.

If it's a -1 cost it lets you do 5 PS2 rookies + Title with no astros/integrated or 5 of the PS1 renegades (Assuming 20 points) with title + flight assist and integrated. If they only have 3 refits in a pack, it "encourages" a second expansion purchase to get enough for 5. It's one way to provide something new while buffing something old.

36 minutes ago, viedit said:

If it's a -1 cost it lets you do 5 PS2 rookies + Title with no astros/integrated or 5 of the PS1 renegades (Assuming 20 points) with title + flight assist and integrated. If they only have 3 refits in a pack, it "encourages" a second expansion purchase to get enough for 5. It's one way to provide something new while buffing something old.

I suspect there isn't actually a title.

Renegade Refit is T-65 and 'something else' - if it's a U-wing, then it's not a title because pivot wing.

Servomotors and Integrated are both modifications.

I dunno. it may be all zero cost, in which case you can have 5 'clean' zealots only with no upgrades, but given the work that FFG felt needed to go into the Vaksai, that seems unlikely.

Alternatively, it may not have a negative cost but may (as per vaksai) reduce the cost of upgrades - same net effect (you can field 5 zealots with R2s or Flight Assist) but more significant for the named pilots, who are potentially packing astromech and elite upgrade.

Title wasn't the right wording. "Foil Mod" should have been used instead.

kinda hard to play them already when we dont know their costs or what the refit does (which is bound to be a price reduction)

5 naked PS1 xwings wont be doing anything.

1 hour ago, eMeM said:

I'm 99% sure the Renegade Refit has a negative cost.

First, that doesn't change the fact that the PS1 itself would be more than 19 points base. Second, based on what?

2 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

kinda hard to play them already when we dont know their costs or what the refit does (which is bound to be a price reduction)

5 naked PS1 xwings wont be doing anything.

I say this based solely on the assumption they will get a price reduction refit and you can do both flight assist and integrated astromech...

DO NOT underestimate how much ground they can cover or space they can block with a 3 bank and boost. Or a 2 turn boost/BR. With 5 of them and the ability to barrel roll at the end for free, you can create a kill box that can burn down Nym or Miranda in one turn. Palp shuttle in one turn. Take a Decimator or Ghost easily to half points in one turn. Strip all the shields off of quick draw in one turn. They have enough health beyond what a Kihraxz has that they can survive a pretty significant alpha hit.

11 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

First, that doesn't change the fact that the PS1 itself would be more than 19 points base. Second, based on what?

• The image of 5 Zealot pilot cards in the pack photo (which may be a mistake given that people think the top two should be other U-wing pilots (compare to base inserts)
• The fact that 'refit' is T-65 and something (the limitations line is longer than on the S-foils card) and people suspect it's the U-wing.
  • unless the 'hidden' bit of the card has a truly godlike benefit, being able to equip two modifications isn't an especially great fix for the U-wing, which doesn't have any 'auto-include' mods (like X-wings or Interceptors) and suffers from being a bit overpriced.
  • Hence, if it's also a U-wing fix, the theory goes, it probably includes a price cut (either of base price or reducing the cost of upgrades)
• People assume it's going to be like chaardan refit because they both have 'refit' in the title. Not an especially great theory, but hey.

I dunno.

• On the one hand, going from PS2 to PS1 should only generate a single point reduction for a medium fighter - meaning 20 points.
• On the other, it is universally acknowledged (even by FFG) that the Rookie is a point too expensive specifically because they wanted to prevent you ever having five, regardless of their loadout. If introducing a new pilot who's main job is to be cheaper, then they may have started from the price the Rookie should have been (20, like the cartel marauder) before applying the discount - in which case, 19 points is not unreasonable.
  • After all, comparing a Cavern Angels Zealot to a Cartel Marauder before either reaches for the upgrades binder, the latter has a +1PS advantage, a (fractionally) better dial, and an illicit slot. The X-wing has one extra hit point as shields rather than hull, but I think a 1 point increase for the khiraxz pre-upgrades is justified.

I really think its too early to have this conversation until the S-Foil dual card and Renegade Refit is spoiled.

But as an aside, if you haven't flown Rookies with FAA/IA, you really should, it drastically changes the way the ship flies.

5 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

On the other, it is universally acknowledged (even by FFG) that the Rookie is a point too expensive specifically because they wanted to prevent you ever having five, regardless of their loadout. If introducing a new pilot who's main job is to be cheaper, then they may have started from the price the Rookie should have been (20, like the cartel marauder) before applying the discount - in which case, 19 points is not unreasonable.

I remember reading somewhere that in the original play testing of the game they did try 5 rookies before release and it dumpstered everything they threw at it, hence the pricing. It's now a much different game and is pretty obvious that "heavy swarms" are not a significant threat or meta defining. The game is more built on combo efficiency through cards and pilot ability over raw red dice and health.

Even minus 1 point off the U-Wing would make me happy. Even better if it was 2 though!

7 hours ago, Marinealver said:

So with a PS1 Zealot pilot it is going to be no surprise that we will likely get a 20 point X-wing pilot. You know what that means. Yup 5 X-wings in a 100 point squadron. The only reason why X-wings were 21 points because they would have clobbered 8 TIE Swarms in testing.

So with that being said, has anyone tired to put it on vassal or proxy on table top the 5 Zealot mini-swarm yet (no upgrade just 5 X-wings and they are all pilot skill 1)?

I’d try it if it were possible. There’s only 4 copies of S-foils and 3 cardboard X-Wing bases in the pack. There’s a good chance that 2 of the 5 PS1 cards are supposed to be U-Wing cards. It wouldn’t be the first time they screwed up a display image in a preview.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

As a regular pilot of 5 x Strikers, believe me that works fine. People tend not to realise just how much fire 5 3-dice attacks can actually rain on some

not an entirely fair comparison as Strikers have the maneuverability to set up their firing arcs

the X-wing is stiff as ****, ESPECIALLY when it has to k-turn. This sharply cuts down on the # of attacks you throw on a given turn, and multiple rolls is really the only way to alleviate their sharp potential for failure

flying five without knowing what the new mod does is a pointlesss endeavor. They will be as ship-defining as adaptive ailerons, possibly even x7

also I severely doubt we're getting cheaper Us simply because the board space they take up. So all we really have to hope for is a proper fix (refit) and some absolutely glorious new pilot abilities to make it a support craft even slightly worth taking over the Auzzie

7 minutes ago, viedit said:

I remember reading somewhere that in the original play testing of the game they did try 5 rookies before release and it dumpstered everything they threw at it, hence the pricing. It's now a much different game and is pretty obvious that "heavy swarms" are not a significant threat or meta defining. The game is more built on combo efficiency through cards and pilot ability over raw red dice and health.

Agreed - or, at least, you need a much bigger weight of metal to make up for 'not being the aces'. Going from 3 Ace T-65 X-wings to 4 Generic T-65 X-wings isn't a particularly good deal. Going from 3 to 5, on the other hand, lets you get one ship PS-killed and one ship arc-dodged and you still trade an equivalent number of shots.

6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

the X-wing is stiff as ****, ESPECIALLY when it has to k-turn. This sharply cuts down on the # of attacks you throw on a given turn, and multiple rolls is really the only way to alleviate their sharp potential for failure

flying five without knowing what the new mod does is a pointlesss endeavor. They will be as ship-defining as adaptive ailerons, possibly even x7

Agreed. I'm confident we'll get to field 5 with something. Whether the something is Flight Assist Astromechs or S-foils (whatever the details of what it actually does are) will determine how well it works. I'd happily settle for 5 with flight assist, because that does give it a surprising bit of flexibility (especially with PS1 so you're planning against a known board state).

23 minutes ago, viedit said:

I remember reading somewhere that in the original play testing of the game they did try 5 rookies before release and it dumpstered everything they threw at it, hence the pricing. It's now a much different game and is pretty obvious that "heavy swarms" are not a significant threat or meta defining. The game is more built on combo efficiency through cards and pilot ability over raw red dice and health.

That’s the rumored prehistory of the game. However there have been several attempts to play test 5X lists and they didn’t seem too special even back in the PreScum waves.

What if the refit is xwing and uwing like people think but it gives you a choice between +1 mod or -1 cost? Best of both the hot xwing mods are 0 cost, the uwing needs a cost reduction not mods.

Torp slot upgrade too because neither need them.

1 hour ago, kris40k said:

I really think its too early to have this conversation until the S-Foil dual card and Renegade Refit is spoiled.

But as an aside, if you haven't flown Rookies with FAA/IA, you really should, it drastically changes the way the ship flies.

This. These two upgrades are roughly 4pts of value that you get for 1pt. Assuming S-Foils are 0, you really don't need a negative cost title, just as title that lets you take all 3 at once.

1 hour ago, kris40k said:

I really think its too early to have this conversation until the S-Foil dual card and Renegade Refit is spoiled.

But as an aside, if you haven't flown Rookies with FAA/IA, you really should, it drastically changes the way the ship flies.

I think it is the perfect timing, because right now we are not limit in our testing by what the cards will say and can happy go all out and test 19, 20 points versions with different upgrade prices on top.
If we knew what the cards do, we would have already an answer and where would be the fun in that?

So, who is up for a game of X-Wing against 5x with PS1, FA and IA?

Do we have reason to believe these will be cheaper than rookies and not given the scum z95 treatment (-1 ps +illicit)?partisans seem like they could maybe take an illicit.