6 hours ago, Kristjan said:

Maybe we will get some new upgrades or something that allows consistent competitive builds without running max squads. I have not seen any builds win consistently, or at all for that matter, in the Toronto area that did not run max squads since wave 2. But hey, maybe we're outliers.

This comment is irrelevant to your main point (In fact I mostly agree with you in that a slight reduction in Squad Allowance would probably be a good move and force interesting fleet design choices; though I think Wave 7 has done a lot to allow lighter / no squads to be more viable).

I just wanted to say that in general you should be wary of the tendency for local metas to be self-fulfilling (even if they are a great meta like Toronto!).

I had the pleasure of playing in a Store Champs while I was over last year. I intentionally took a Cracken list because I had heard no one in the area rated him. This was confirmed when people told me as much, repeatedly, throughout the day.

Further, all of my opponents took Sensor Net because the meta had played it a few times (presumably with lists non-optimized for it) and had decided, at that time, that it wasn’t that great.

I want to stress that I’m not saying that your point in this case is wrong. Just that it can be misleading to point to your own meta, even when it’s an excellent one, as concrete proof of a point (as tempting as that is). I know my own area has had similar self-fulfillment about other cards / objectives, and there is an element of group think that develops around it.

Again, not saying it’s wrong, just something to keep in mind.

34 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Hold on, exactly who the heck wants to nerf what?

Did I walk into an alternate reality or something? What is this data that so bothers people?

You should know better than anyone, that these threads arent based on data. And that when data is provided it is declared to be biased when it isnt.

I am proud to have started a thread that has generated 125 replies in 4.5 days.

9 minutes ago, elbmc1969 said:

I am proud to have started a thread that has generated 125 replies in 4.5 days.

45 minutes ago, elbmc1969 said:

I am proud to have started a thread that has generated 125 replies in 4.5 days.

I still feel the topic title is not relevant to the discussion since Wave 7 was practically done developing when the meta was evening out for wave 6.

Perhaps Wave 7 IS the answer... people just have the wrong question.

Ever thought of that?

4 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

You should know better than anyone, that these threads arent based on data. And that when data is provided it is declared to be biased when it isnt.

Never trust a statistic that you didnt counterfeit yourself.

9 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Never trust a statistic that you didnt counterfeit yourself.

This, Zork-times-in-Plorch...

... I may have let some errors into my calculation there...

17 hours ago, Kristjan said:

It's not that it's popular, it's completely dominant. Going from 134 to 100 would not eliminate squad builds, but holding on to those points at the end of the game would be much harder, since a lot of the aces at 134 would need to become generics to stay under the cap. I don't see relay as the problem, as Brikhause mentioned we would just go back to taking boosted comms and even more lethal squads. I'd even be happy with a 120 point squad cap, that's 30% maybe that's more reasonable. I just don't see the current dominant builds changing with the current squad cap in place, regardless of any nerfs to relay or floatillas.

You know what was also completely dominant for a while? The GENCON special. And DeMSU. Light tweaks and new upgrades changed that. We were a week into wave 7, and this thread already declared it to be not enough. Excuse me if I don't take that on face value, especially since what I'm seeing from the World Cup data is also showing a significant shift away from squadrons at the top comparative to the wave 6 Regionals data.

I’m with Truth, new wave has tons of antisquad tech and we haven’t seen the meta stabilize yet. (Although vassal is a different beast)

Also, regarding reducing squadron points, thats a drastic move in order to nerf a couple of lists. I’d be careful with such widesweeping changes.

I actually think we are in a golden age or Armada, I'm just of the opinion that lowering the squad cap, even marginally, would make the game even better. I recall posting about the power of certain max squad builds around this time last year, I could try to dig up the thread, prior to Worlds. So I find myself doing the same thing again this year. If another max squad build wins Worlds again in a few months I'm changing my username to Kassandra.

2 hours ago, Truthiness said:

You know what was also completely dominant for a while? The GENCON special. And DeMSU. Light tweaks and new upgrades changed that.

Just by my recollection, even when the Gencon special and DeMSU were wrecking house, max squad builds were never considered not competitive. Haven't they always taken worlds? (serious question)

1 hour ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Just by my recollection, even when the Gencon special and DeMSU were wrecking house, max squad builds were never considered not competitive. Haven't they always taken worlds? (serious question)

Wave 1's World Champ was a total shock that didn't do anything to change attitudes from my recollection. I distinctly remember squads being considered a liability for wave 1 and good parts of wave 2. It took wave 3/4 Worlds to break the dam.

6 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

Wave 1's World Champ was a total shock that didn't so anything to change attitudes from my recollection. I distinctly remember squads being considered a liability for wave 1 and good parts of wave 2. It took wave 3/4 Worlds to break the dam.

Qft

Wave ones world win wasnt max squads either. I believe it was three gunnery team afmks and 8 awings. 8 awings isnt max squads.

10 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Wave ones world win wasnt max squads either. I believe it was three gunnery team afmks and 8 awings. 8 awings isnt max squads.

3 with 300 points? No . It was two Mark II and a CR90B (all 3 without any upgrades i think). But yes, it had 8 A-wings. Just because there was not much more room. And the 9th would be wasted. The admiral was Garn. The two Mark II were able to activate 8 squadrons. And its hard to get another 11 points in.

Max squadrons were 100 in wave 1. The 8 A-Wings were 88 points. Still much more than most had (i heard).

Right right right. Still not max though

50 minutes ago, Kristjan said:

I actually think we are in a golden age of Armada

Absolutely true this is.

Patience we must have my young padawans.

For one who has lived through the golden age of Xwing. Golden ages are signs of worst times.

Also again, who wants what nerfed, and what is this data? Since the last time got such a useless reply?

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only realize the truth... THERE IS NO SPOON. Then you will see that it not the spoon that bends, it is yourself.

10 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only realize the truth... THERE IS NO SPOON. Then you will see that it not the spoon that bends, it is yourself.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

For one who has lived through the golden age of Xwing. Golden ages are signs of worst times.

So then absolutely nothing can make you happy. Confirmed.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Also again, who wants what nerfed, and what is this data? Since the last time got such a useless reply?

Where is the data that shows that this question can and should be answered?

4 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

So then absolutely nothing can make you happy. Confirmed.

Where is the data that shows that this question can and should be answered?

Before you be so derisive, have you actually looked into what that means? We considered Wave8 the golden age of Xwing. From there, the imbalances got to the worst point in Xwing history and the first of the multiple great errata's of Xwing. This is also the wave of the Jumpmaster and the Ghost.

Do you really know what I mean, or do you just want to ridicule me?

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

For one who has lived through the golden age of Xwing. Golden ages are signs of worst times.

As long as they don't come out with an expansion called The End Times , I think we're good.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair…