Shrapnel is not Blast

By GottaBadFeelingAboutThis, in Imperial Assault Skirmish

This may be perfectly clear on the card, but I thought it's worth confirming:

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1) Shrapnel can provide blast, but it is not itself blast, so you could use the surge for it even if all other damage from Drokatta's attack is blocked, correct? Presumably, this means taking option B ("Each figure within 2 spaces of the target space suffers 1 dmg"), since adding "blast 2" would fizzle due to no damage going through in the first place, but Shrapnel at least would work?

2) Because Shrapnel includes "if it did not miss," something like On the Lam would remove your option to Shrapnel (if the figure moves out of range or LoS) ... but if someone tried to On the Lam to get away and simply wound up in a different, targetable space (say, on Nal Hutta they couldn't get to cover, but could move away from a damaged figure to avoid Shrapnel, or to contest an objective), Shrapnel could still be used, and would target the new space?

3) Relatedly, in a Drokatta build running Collateral Damage, have we heard a ruling yet on whether On the Lam would negate the option to play Collateral Damage, counting from the new space the defender occupies? There was a thread on it here, https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/258039-collateral-damage-and-on-the-lam/?page=2, but it seems like it petered out pending a ruling.

1) Effects with Keywords (like Blast) require at least 1 damage to be dealt in order to take place. Therefore, if you don't deal damage, you can use Sharpnes for effect 2.
2) On the Lam has to be played before applying modifiers, so the figure moves 1st, then if you don't have LOS anymore or if your range is not enough, the attack misses and you can't use Sharpnel.
3) I still guess that since On the Lam can deny your attack, in those case you can't use Collateral Damage either.

3: I would rule that you can play Collateral Damage, since the attack still resolves, but it resolves as a miss since line of sight is broken (at least that's how I've been playing it). Collateral Damage says nothing about only being able to use it if the attack hits.

8 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

1) Effects with Keywords (like Blast) require at least 1 damage to be dealt in order to take place. Therefore, if you don't deal damage, you can use Sharpnes for effect 2.
2) On the Lam has to be played before applying modifiers, so the figure moves 1st, then if you don't have LOS anymore or if your range is not enough, the attack misses and you can't use Sharpnel.
3) I still guess that since On the Lam can deny your attack, in those case you can't use Collateral Damage either.

1) Agree
2) If you use On the Lam but are still in range and LOS then Drokkatta would use shrapnel on the new space
3) I still disagree. Collateral Damage can still work if the attack misses, and the rules for moving out of LOS specifically say the attack misses, not that there is no longer a defender. Probably shouldn't rehash that other thread on here though, we never came to a consensus

45 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

1) Effects with Keywords (like Blast) require at least 1 damage to be dealt in order to take place. Therefore, if you don't deal damage, you can use Sharpnes for effect 2.
2) On the Lam has to be played before applying modifiers, so the figure moves 1st, then if you don't have LOS anymore or if your range is not enough, the attack misses and you can't use Sharpnel.
3) I still guess that since On the Lam can deny your attack, in those case you can't use Collateral Damage either.

On the topic of effects with keywords, does this only apply to negative status effects? So, for example, if an imperial officer deals no damage during an attack, could they still focus themselves?

A related piece of nuance, although I'm not sure when/if it would matter:

4) Does the damage from Shrapnel get applied during the "Spend Surges" (step 5) portion of the attack, or the "Calculate and Apply Damage" portion?

It feels like in any case where it might matter (close VP's and a chance for the defender to return fire/parting shot), the damage would go in before those effects either way. So there may not be any case in which having a figure removed for points mid-attack steps would matter. Just trying to get myself oriented to the technical plumbing.

57 minutes ago, Averagejo3gam3r said:

On the topic of effects with keywords, does this only apply to negative status effects? So, for example, if an imperial officer deals no damage during an attack, could they still focus themselves?

No they can't, because Focus is another condition / keyword.

57 minutes ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

A related piece of nuance, although I'm not sure when/if it would matter:

4) Does the damage from Shrapnel get applied during the "Spend Surges" (step 5) portion of the attack, or the "Calculate and Apply Damage" portion?

It feels like in any case where it might matter (close VP's and a chance for the defender to return fire/parting shot), the damage would go in before those effects either way. So there may not be any case in which having a figure removed for points mid-attack steps would matter. Just trying to get myself oriented to the technical plumbing.

No, damage occurs only on step 7. Blast is a condition keyword depending on damage dealt, while "effect 2" takes place after resolving the attack, which is even later than step 7.

17 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

No, damage occurs only on step 7. Blast is a condition keyword depending on damage dealt, while "effect 2" takes place after resolving the attack, which is even later than step 7.

Thanks -- I was so focused on the other part of "Effect 2" that I skimmed right over "after this attack resolves!"

I suppose that raises the question:

5) If Drokatta shoots Greedo or Han, and they get a parting shot/return fire and kill Drokatta, does Shrapnel "Effect 2" still take place (assuming it's been paid for in the Spend Surges step)?

It does take place because the attack is resolved (step 7 is completed)

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Edited by erlucius90
5 hours ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

3) Relatedly, in a Drokatta build running Collateral Damage, have we heard a ruling yet on whether On the Lam would negate the option to play Collateral Damage, counting from the new space the defender occupies? There was a thread on it here, https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/258039-collateral-damage-and-on-the-lam/?page=2, but it seems like it petered out pending a ruling.

5 hours ago, brettpkelly said:


3) I still disagree. Collateral Damage can still work if the attack misses, and the rules for moving out of LOS specifically say the attack misses, not that there is no longer a defender. Probably shouldn't rehash that other thread on here though, we never came to a consensus

All you can do for now in the absence of a ruling is try to check with the TO beforehand and see how they'll rule it and make your case. For what little it's worth, I went over this rules situation with the TO before my last regional, and he felt that he had to rule it that it triggers from the space the figure ended the OTL movement in. I made my case based on what's in the rules as currently written,

  1. We know the attack wasn't cancelled due to an invalid target space as the attack resolves with a miss. (therefore, you still have a target space)
  2. We know abilities that don't require damage on the attack can still trigger after a miss.
  3. The RRG defines the target space as the space occupied by the defender.

My personal opinion is that's how it should be ruled until the FAQ, but there has been some debate. Todd replied to my rules question saying that it's outside the scope of the rules, so I'm not sure how he will decide to rule this in the future. Until we get that new FAQ, all we can do is keep rehashing, haha.

Edited by Fightwookies
6 hours ago, Averagejo3gam3r said:

On the topic of effects with keywords, does this only apply to negative status effects? So, for example, if an imperial officer deals no damage during an attack, could they still focus themselves?

The target needs to suffer damage during step 7 of the attack to get to resolve Blast, Cleave, and Condition Keywords to give the corresponding condition after the attack resolves.

Focus needs that the target to suffer damage to give Focused.

Otherwise, read the other thread and wait for the next FAQ.

5 hours ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

5) If Drokatta shoots Greedo or Han, and they get a parting shot/return fire and kill Drokatta, does Shrapnel "Effect 2" still take place (assuming it's been paid for in the Spend Surges step)?

If a figure is defeated during its activation, the activation immediately ends. However, the consensus is that all abilities already triggered get resolved.

Cleave-abilities would be skipped, because Cleave needs the attacker to be on the map to choose a valid target to suffer the damage. Blast and Shrapnel's Blast-like effect do not need the attacker to be on the map (and the attacker makes no choices) so they are performed.