My players took over Teemo’s palace and plan to use his contacts and network to build their own criminal enterprise. Along the way they have “picked up” a new NPC’s (including Pash, Oskara and Lohhwrick) and want to use them for hired muscle.

so, before I start putting too much thought into homebrewing a ruleset I thought I would check and see if either FFG have published any rules or guidelines about this or maybe other players beat me to ir?

Just one basic guideline: Make them offers they can't refuse

While no actual rules for larger criminal enterprises have been published to my knowledge (and just taking over a palace doesn't mean you will get to keep everything the owner has built - many will rather use that as a chance to get away and do their own thing), Far Horizons has rules for homesteads and enterprises, though those tend to be a little smaller in scale.

Consider using the rules for running a business or homestead from Far Horizons. The bonus skill could be Knowledge (Underworld). This method would work to keep the operation tied in with the Obligation mechanic and force the PCs to continue to adventure to protect their new asset. This rule system does not generate much more money either without sending Obligation and money to buildup the business. The lack of funds being generated in the beginning could represent the fact that the PCs profits are being eaten up by bribes and kick-backs to keep Teemo’s clan off their backs. Remember that just because a Hutt is on the outs doesn’t mean there isn’t one waiting in the wings to take over. In the mafia, only a made man under the orders of a boss can get away with killing another made man.

1 hour ago, Cifer said:

While no actual rules for larger criminal enterprises have been published to my knowledge (and just taking over a palace doesn't mean you will get to keep everything the owner has built - many will rather use that as a chance to get away and do their own thing), Far Horizons has rules for homesteads and enterprises, though those tend to be a little smaller in scale.

Thank you, will go back and double-check Far Horizons, forgot about that section.

And yes, most of Teemo's men left when they realized he was dead and so were their chances of getting paid. There was some ransacking and vandalism and general violence as they cleared out but the PC's were left with a pair of particularly useless Gamorreans, the Jawa housekeepers and a few of the NPC's from the EotE starter set.

Right now, inheriting the palace has just meant inheriting Teemo's problems but my players are making the palace their own and rebuilding his empire in their own image and I want to figure out how to include the NPC's in there.

4 minutes ago, OriginalDomingo said:

Consider using the rules for running a business or homestead from Far Horizons. The bonus skill could be Knowledge (Underworld). This method would work to keep the operation tied in with the Obligation mechanic and force the PCs to continue to adventure to protect their new asset. This rule system does not generate much more money either without sending Obligation and money to buildup the business. The lack of funds being generated in the beginning could represent the fact that the PCs profits are being eaten up by bribes and kick-backs to keep Teemo’s clan off their backs. Remember that just because a Hutt is on the outs doesn’t mean there isn’t one waiting in the wings to take over. In the mafia, only a made man under the orders of a boss can get away with killing another made man.

awesome feedback and suggestions, thank you.

The NPCs should be a great GM tool to use as spies and plot devices. They find ways to either intentionally (or unintentionally) sabotage things for the PCs when they roll despairs.

17 minutes ago, OriginalDomingo said:

The NPCs should be a great GM tool to use as spies and plot devices. They find ways to either intentionally (or unintentionally) sabotage things for the PCs when they roll despairs.

Exactly my thinking. Currently building out a chart for NPC missions that can bring as many threats as it does rewards.

Here's the thing, though...

Criminal kingpins are not known for playing nice or being benevolent to newcomers.

Are your characters really ready to try and take on other criminal networks that are not above using underhanded and downright nasty tactics such as poisoning, murder, killing innocent civilians, setting people up, kidnapping, torture and things like that?

I know it's a romantic dream of many to run a criminal enterprise, but most tend to forget that most criminal leaders are pretty ruthless and sociopaths.

I'll offer a flipside to Oddball's comment: sometimes it's a lot more profitable to counsel or even ally with other players, especially if they've shown some prowess.

Fictional but plausible examples are the New Day Co-op in season 3 of The Wire, and kingpin Proposition Joe's effort to mentor and incorporate young banger Marlo Stanfield in seasons 4 and 5.

However, to Oddball's points, these are still organizations adjudicated by violence and opportunity -- so, deals get altered.

For more inspiration on the underworld than you'd ever need, if you're up for (TV-MA) gritty crime drama, I highly recommend The Wire, as well as Justified. There are others, but I keep coming back to these two.

4 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Here's the thing, though...

Criminal kingpins are not known for playing nice or being benevolent to newcomers.

Are your characters really ready to try and take on other criminal networks that are not above using underhanded and downright nasty tactics such as poisoning, murder, killing innocent civilians, setting people up, kidnapping, torture and things like that?

I know it's a romantic dream of many to run a criminal enterprise, but most tend to forget that most criminal leaders are pretty ruthless and sociopaths.

... who are of course totally different from the usual ruthless sociopaths most Edge of the Empire groups regularly deal with.

15 hours ago, Cifer said:

... who are of course totally different from the usual ruthless sociopaths most Edge of the Empire groups regularly deal with.

Ah, but the difference there being that you work for them instead of compete with them.

Seriously, who's gonna stay loyal to the Players' syndicate when the rival syndicate keeps kidnapping their family and brutally torturing and murdering anyone working with the players' syndicate?

Trust me, I speak from experience, there's a massive difference between working with a sociopath and competing with a sociopath...

It gets particularly interesting if you work for a sociopath who competes with another sociopath. Because that would make the underlings whose families get stuffed in the fridge... you.

So, again, not all that much difference to a regular EotE game.

Ummmm . . .

I'm not all that familiar with Teemo or his operations, but Wookepiedia says that he's in the Tiure Deslijik (which is the same Deslijik Jabba is affiliated with. Which makes sense since they are both located on Tatooine).

It sounds like the PC'c achieved this jurisdiction via 'right of conquest,' which will work great until someone else with more guns & soldiers comes along to challenge their ownership. And the Tiure Deslijik is NOT going to be happy with that kind of ownership transfer.

And they can hire a LOT of well armed mercenaries to deal with short lived usurpers.

However, being the Governor of Mos Shuuta means that the PC's would need to consolidate and organize the public service organizations. And a lot of these organizations are going to be very resistant to a "new governor" especially when they ALL know that the Tiure Deslijik is sending in a replacement eventually.

My first thought, if the PC's decide to stay around, they have probably just invalidated their life insurance policies.

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:58 PM, OddballE8 said:

Here's the thing, though...

Criminal kingpins are not known for playing nice or being benevolent to newcomers.

Are your characters really ready to try and take on other criminal networks that are not above using underhanded and downright nasty tactics such as poisoning, murder, killing innocent civilians, setting people up, kidnapping, torture and things like that?

I know it's a romantic dream of many to run a criminal enterprise, but most tend to forget that most criminal leaders are pretty ruthless and sociopaths.

wouldn't that be a huge part of the fun and challenge?

23 hours ago, wilsch said:

I'll offer a flipside to Oddball's comment: sometimes it's a lot more profitable to counsel or even ally with other players, especially if they've shown some prowess.

Fictional but plausible examples are the New Day Co-op in season 3 of The Wire, and kingpin Proposition Joe's effort to mentor and incorporate young banger Marlo Stanfield in seasons 4 and 5.

However, to Oddball's points, these are still organizations adjudicated by violence and opportunity -- so, deals get altered.

For more inspiration on the underworld than you'd ever need, if you're up for (TV-MA) gritty crime drama, I highly recommend The Wire, as well as Justified. There are others, but I keep coming back to these two.

awesome feedback, thank you!

20 hours ago, Cifer said:

... who are of course totally different from the usual ruthless sociopaths most Edge of the Empire groups regularly deal with.

bingo!

4 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Ah, but the difference there being that you work for them instead of compete with them.

Seriously, who's gonna stay loyal to the Players' syndicate when the rival syndicate keeps kidnapping their family and brutally torturing and murdering anyone working with the players' syndicate?

Trust me, I speak from experience, there's a massive difference between working with a sociopath and competing with a sociopath...

3 hours ago, Cifer said:

It gets particularly interesting if you work for a sociopath who competes with another sociopath. Because that would make the underlings whose families get stuffed in the fridge... you.

So, again, not all that much difference to a regular EotE game.

3 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

Ummmm . . .

I'm not all that familiar with Teemo or his operations, but Wookepiedia says that he's in the Tiure Deslijik (which is the same Deslijik Jabba is affiliated with. Which makes sense since they are both located on Tatooine).

It sounds like the PC'c achieved this jurisdiction via 'right of conquest,' which will work great until someone else with more guns & soldiers comes along to challenge their ownership. And the Tiure Deslijik is NOT going to be happy with that kind of ownership transfer.

And they can hire a LOT of well armed mercenaries to deal with short lived usurpers.

However, being the Governor of Mos Shuuta means that the PC's would need to consolidate and organize the public service organizations. And a lot of these organizations are going to be very resistant to a "new governor" especially when they ALL know that the Tiure Deslijik is sending in a replacement eventually.

My first thought, if the PC's decide to stay around, they have probably just invalidated their life insurance policies.

Some VERY solid points that you all are making. Some quick thoughts -

1. agreed with everyone that starting a new syndicate or gang is going to be challenging - exactly what my PC's are after!
2. also agree that if the PC's aren't smart and subtle, they could draw undue attention from a bigger fish
3. that all said, in a galaxy that big I can't help but believe there's room for a group of sharp operators to carve out a niche
4. As for Jabba -
   1. following on from Long Arm of the Hutt, the PC's were able to sneak into Teemo's palace with the battle-droids bought from the Duke
   2. also in LAotH, it is stated that Jabba and Teemo are at odds, with Teemo buying said droids to usurp Jabba's power
   3. so, in our particular campaign, one of Jabba's men turned up and demanded the battle-droids as partial payment
   4. once the PC's gave him the droids (valued at 80k), Jabba was further willing to overlook the killing of his nephew for a 5k/month "license" to operate on Tatootine, plus 10% of their take.
   5. Assuming the players are willing and able to pay the tithe and don't interfere with Jabba's business, he's willing to leave them alone (for now)
5. There are also issues for the PC's with the Mos Shuuta residents who want to take Teemo's palace back for themselves.

So, is this going to be easy? Nope! Could it be lots of fun? Absolutely!

Again, are our players looking to take on the Black Sun or Jabba immediately? of course not! They're looking to find a space between the shadows to ply their trade. At some point they might get big enough to get on someone's radar but to start, part of the challenge is staying under the radar.

To make this easier for me to navigate, I am putting together a few rules that account for:

• The wage-cost of hiring Minions, Rivals & Nemeses
• The money they would generate via tasks
• Costs associated with running a criminal gang
• The Obligation that each NPC member of the team would bring
• Building a "Notoriety" mechanism that is similar to Obligation but will relate to gang activity and, per all the comments above, this would be how I would handle them being on the radar of other gangs

thanks for the awesome feedback, please keep it coming

It sounds like DangerShine has plenty in store to keep these PCs on their toes, and it will be fun. I just want to know who is playing the Joe Pesci-like character (Casino or Goodfellas) that's going to end up in a shallow grave in the desert for biting off more than he can chew.

You failed to mention that they had Jabba as a patron.

That will improve their odds considerably.

11 hours ago, Cifer said:

It gets particularly interesting if you work for a sociopath who competes with another sociopath. Because that would make the underlings whose families get stuffed in the fridge... you.

So, again, not all that much difference to a regular EotE game.

Ah, but here's the thing...

Two competing sociopaths tend to not go to extremes.

What most misunderstand about sociopaths is that they DO care about some things... namely themselves.

And if they know the other guy is a sociopath who'll go to the same extremes as themselves, they'll usually find some middle ground to agree on and live in relative peace. (they'll constantly vie for the advantage, but won't usually go all-out war).

3 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

You failed to mention that they had Jabba as a patron.

That will improve their odds considerably.

Indeed.

I thought he meant that they'd start a new, unaffiliated, crime syndicate.

If they're just "taking over" teemo's position, then it'll be loads easier.

16 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

You failed to mention that they had Jabba as a patron.

That will improve their odds considerably.

He isn't their patron, he is taxing them whilst (mostly) ignoring them.

13 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

I thought he meant that they'd start a new, unaffiliated, crime syndicate.

If they're just "taking over" teemo's position, then it'll be loads easier.

I did, and they have.

Jabba didn't care enough to force them to give up the palace, everything else is up to them to figure out and they're not just stepping into Teemo's shoes.

10 minutes ago, Yaccarus said:

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1 hour ago, Yaccarus said:

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3 hours ago, DangerShine Designs said:

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I’ve run out of responses to people misspelling Wookiee. (Or, in this case, Wookieepedia)