3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I wonder if there's points for two different types of aces to maximize the use of Optimized Prototype. Say you've got Fel and Vader. Against some lists, Vader will be the key ship, so you pump him. Against other lists, Fel is king, so you pump him. I wonder if this is the real power of this condition, but it seems hard pressed when stacked up against Palp.

I think the PS11 Vader is the best recipient of the condition. An extra shield to keep him alive longer, and the ability to cancel those blanks to strip a shield and force that crit through. It's really solid. Buzz-saw Whisper has some cool combo potential, but I'm not sure if Whisper can handle the current meta.

Your idea of TIE/Ds is the one that intrigues me the most. I prefer Maarek over Rexler, but that just depends on whether you want the PS8 or are OK with PS7:

38 Maarek w/ Score, IonC, TIE/D. (VI Vessery could also be good)
31 Inquisitor w/ PtL, AT, V1.
29-31(?) PS1 Reaper w/ Krennic, Vader. (I'm assuming the PS1 is 21-23pts)

Depending on the cost of the PS1 Reaper, you might be able to get LWF on it. It gives you PS1 Jam action, and Vader crew shooting last to deal lots of crits (hopefully).

Optimized Kestal

Cancel a die to take a shield. Spend focus to push the rest of the results.

Edit: I had Kath in there, but shields.

Great idea in theory for Kath but can't go on ships with 4+ shields.

7 minutes ago, theBountyHunter said:

Great idea in theory for Kath but can't go on ships with 4+ shields.

Forum tip: Always quote when you catch someone posting nonsense. You never know when someone like me will try to sneak in an edit before anyone notices.

I realized my mistake with Kath, and started editing before you replied.

1 hour ago, CRCL said:

I think the PS11 Vader is the best recipient of the condition. An extra shield to keep him alive longer, and the ability to cancel those blanks to strip a shield and force that crit through. It's really solid. Buzz-saw Whisper has some cool combo potential, but I'm not sure if Whisper can handle the current meta.

Your idea of TIE/Ds is the one that intrigues me the most. I prefer Maarek over Rexler, but that just depends on whether you want the PS8 or are OK with PS7:

38 Maarek w/ Score, IonC, TIE/D. (VI Vessery could also be good)
31 Inquisitor w/ PtL, AT, V1.
29-31(?) PS1 Reaper w/ Krennic, Vader. (I'm assuming the PS1 is 21-23pts)

Depending on the cost of the PS1 Reaper, you might be able to get LWF on it. It gives you PS1 Jam action, and Vader crew shooting last to deal lots of crits (hopefully).

Yeah, I like that. You get a punchy, tough TIE/D, an Autothrusters ace, and a PS1 bruiser. I could see dropping Vader for Intel, potentially getting enough points for Hull Upgrade on the Defender, which feels pretty nice. There's a lot of options for the points, depending on how much that PS1 is. Heck, you can probably get Soontir Fel, a decent TIE/D, and a solid Reaper in a 100 point list, which overall feels like a terrific combo of punch, blocking, and maneuver. Imperials have,been lacking a tough PS1 brawler that can get in and gum up the works. Too bad it's not large base, but still seems solid.

I am kind of liking the idea of a slightly tankier V1.

1 hour ago, jmswood said:

Optimized Kestal

Cancel a die to take a shield. Spend focus to push the rest of the results.

Edit: I had Kath in there, but shields.

Doesn't work on secondaries.

8 hours ago, nexttwelveexits said:

I'm going to go back to Pure Sabacc. He has terrific synergy with both known aspects of the condition. The extra shield means more to him than anyone, Baron included, and he has access to extra dice with no native rerolls. And he's lean on points to begin with.

Countdown is a good recipient too. SHares the same issue of lack of rerolls, and shares the desire for more durability, because it means he lasts for ages.

The beauty part of this is that you decide it wgen the game starts, so you can tailor which ship gets the condition based on your opponent.

I'm also wondering about Tomax with Crack Shot in a TIE Shuttle with Krennic and Jerjerrod. Hits hard, reasonably tough. But 32 points is a LOT for 2 dice, even these 2 dice.

51 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'm also wondering about Tomax with Crack Shot in a TIE Shuttle with Krennic and Jerjerrod . Hits hard, reasonably tough. But 32 points is a LOT for 2 dice, even these 2 dice.

Krennic thinks a TIE Shuttle is beneath his standing. (4 points limitation on TIE Shuttle)

Knew there was a reason that doesn't work.

TIE shuttle title restriction is so disappointing every time.

For casual play I will try it on a sigma squadron pilot with Fire control system an gunner. Using the discarded dice to miss and trigger the gunner with a free target lock. I know this will not change the meta, but I will surely have fun! In fact i want to try the condition on many "low/mid-PS" pilots I never fly with .

If something happens to let formation swarms back into the meta, Optimised Prototype goes very nicely on Howlrunner - she's the prime target, shoots first, and doesn't benefit from her own rerolls, so the die cancellation will work nicely.

C'mon FFG, let me have my Reaper/Howlrunner/Miniswarm build. Please?

Optimized Vader :

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29
Juke 2
Accuracy Corrector 0
TIE/x1 0
Ship Total: 31

+1 Shield
+ Spend a dice result, remove a shield, acc correct to 2 Hits, then use Juke.

6 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

Optimized Vader :

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29
Juke 2
Accuracy Corrector 0
TIE/x1 0
Ship Total: 31

+1 Shield
+ Spend a dice result, remove a shield, acc correct to 2 Hits, then use Juke.

It would be Just Better with ATC though.

5 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Doesn't work on secondaries.

Kestal has a Primary Weapon. It isn’t great, but against low agility targets with lots of shields (Rebels) it would be a good enough.

I like the idea of multiple aces with the option to Optimize the right one for your matchup. Kestal is in the right point range and normally not enough of a threat to draw focused fire right out the gate.

4 hours ago, jmswood said:

Kestal has a Primary Weapon. It isn’t great, but against low agility targets with lots of shields (Rebels) it would be a good enough.

I like the idea of multiple aces with the option to Optimize the right one for your matchup. Kestal is in the right point range and normally not enough of a threat to draw focused fire right out the gate.

If you're paying for Kestal and not using secondaries then you're doing it wrong. You could have Pure Sabacc for the same base cost, and have a far more valuable ship on the table for Krennic.

An amusing and somewhat annoying tidbit i just noticed...

LWF: "...if there are more attack dice than defense dice..." meaning its looking for dice on the table, not dice rolled.
Opt Prot: "spend a die result" meaning flatout remove the die from the table.

Krennic's ability can somewhat counter LWF, as hes lowering the number of red dice but not lowering overall damage (assuming theres shields to begin with).

Thats pretty much the counter to Rebel regen. No matter how bad your attack roll is or how good the enemy evades. You still take away the shield he Just regenerated.

24 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

If you're paying for Kestal and not using secondaries then you're doing it wrong. You could have Pure Sabacc for the same base cost, and have a far more valuable ship on the table for Krennic.

Yeah, I love Kestal.

This is not for Kestal.

Kestal not using an ion turret is just...wtf?

17 hours ago, nexttwelveexits said:

I'm going to go back to Pure Sabacc. He has terrific synergy with both known aspects of the condition. The extra shield means more to him than anyone, Baron included, and he has access to extra dice with no native rerolls. And he's lean on points to begin with.

For sure. The other aspect people have mentioned, is that outside of Rebel Regen, if you get to late game, there usually aren't any shields left. Pure Sabacc usually gets focused down pretty early, but you got to stick around a little longer with that shield, and dealt extra damage to enemy shields before you die. I just think it clicks with Pure Sabacc in so many ways.

I also am really warming up to the idea of using Optimized Prototype on Darth Vader with the Advanced Targeting Computer. There is a LOT of potential there, so good call, team.

Also, @Jo Jo mentioned giving Soontir a 3/3/4/2 stat line, but I wonder if Carnor Jax might like that better so he can dive fearlessly into range 1, even in the face of bombs.

1 minute ago, Parakitor said:

For sure. The other aspect people have mentioned, is that outside of Rebel Regen, if you get to late game, there usually aren't any shields left. Pure Sabacc usually gets focused down pretty early, but you got to stick around a little longer with that shield, and dealt extra damage to enemy shields before you die. I just think it clicks with Pure Sabacc in so many ways.

I also am really warming up to the idea of using Optimized Prototype on Darth Vader with the Advanced Targeting Computer. There is a LOT of potential there, so good call, team.

Also, @Jo Jo mentioned giving Soontir a 3/3/4/2 stat line, but I wonder if Carnor Jax might like that better so he can dive fearlessly into range 1, even in the face of bombs.

I think HU is very questionable when Autothrusters is available for fewer points. 5 HP + Autos feels better than 6 HP on someone who should be a top tier arc dodger, and for me that goes for both Fel and Jax. Besides, most bomb lists are also full of turrets, gotta be able to deal with both.

FO FUNSIES

"CRAZY EIGHTS" (100):

"Pure Sabacc" (22)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Carnor Jax (26)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

"Echo" (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
DJ Krennic [feat. Condish O.P.] (5)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Where does the OP go?! I imagine I'd probably drop it on Sabacc in most games, because as I've said elsewhere I feel that he makes the most use of it, but any of the three would wear it well, so it's down to the matchup.

putting OP on sabaac would evenly spread out the threat factor too, making target priority hard.

Jax needs to die because Jax is a **** and says NO to focus/evades. Even if hes not hitting you that ability can easily be the reason you got slammed hard.
Echo needs to die because a late game phantom is NOT fun to face, especially Echo because she can run circles around anybody with ease.
Sabaac w/o OP is potentially deadly, but due to no reroll he's usually average damage and more annoyance than threat. With OP, now hes a threat and hes even harder to get rid of since now he can effectively take 2 hits before his ability gets shut off.

Who's the #1 threat you try to take out first? Theres virtually no clear answer, i wager it'll be placements that determine it not list comp.
(this was the reason my Deadly 7s list about a year ago was actually potent, Mithel/Scourge/Backdraft/Omega Ace, all PS7 and counting Mithel/Scourge as 1 theyre all just as lethal as the next and also just as annoying to get rid of. Regardless of who you went for, the others ate your face off)

54 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

FO FUNSIES

"CRAZY EIGHTS" (100):

"Pure Sabacc" (22)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Carnor Jax (26)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

"Echo" (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
DJ Krennic [feat. Condish O.P.] (5)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Where does the OP go?! I imagine I'd probably drop it on Sabacc in most games, because as I've said elsewhere I feel that he makes the most use of it, but any of the three would wear it well, so it's down to the matchup.

Echo, Carnor, and Omega Leader were my favorite list back when I first started playing. I really miss that list but Echo just dies WAY TOO FAST in a meta where everyone is PS 9+. But something like this could get me to pull her out of retirement.