On 2/15/2018 at 10:55 AM, Caimheul1313 said:

Since the Snowtroopers get a free ranged attack action after moving I don't know how much even they will need transportation. Two Speed 1 movements will move the squad leader (I think?) 12" down the field and still shoot. So barely able to make it entirely across the board on "The Long March" but still able to cross the entire field if necessary, and even shoot every turn as well. I personally feel that Snowtroopers and Fleet Troopers are the best options for holding off the board for Rapid Reinforcement of any Corps unit revealed so far, in addition to any unit armed with grenades.

I doubt we'll see the ITT until FFG comes up with a close Rebel analogue, as in addition to being able to transport a single Corps unit, an ITT is armed with 2 forward facing laser guns and a laser turret in addition to being armoured. It is more of an IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) than a pure APC.

Agreed, I'm not sure how useful transports would be in this starting meta. Although if we see more Speed 1 movement units later on that don't have Steady, transports could be more justifiable.

Speed 1 movement is 3" I believe. If you add the roughly 1" of the model's base, two Speed 1 moves will be just about 8". Whereas if the transport was Speed 2 (5") plus a 100mm base (roughly 4"), you could get the unit about 18" on turn one. That saves you a turn of movement (depending on how deploying from a transport would work).

Good point on the the Rebel Troop Carrier being unarmed. I hadn't noticed that. There is an armed version seen in some of the new comics (which are canon). Specifically the things from Vader Down seem to have gatling guns.

@OMGBRICK Something like that could work. Although as it isn't enclosed it probably wouldn't provide the same amount of protection.

I thought one of the playthroughs indicated the Speed 1 tool + base was roughly 6" but they might have misspoken, or I misunderstood.

13 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

We don't need silly ships ferrying my troops around the field either. They are fully capable of walking on their own.

Except they aren’t, it would take all 6 turns for a trooper or commander to cross the length of the board. That kind of slow speed is crying out for a fast transport option, which simply does not exist within the game system (reinforcements isn’t comparable to repositioning troops)

47 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Except they aren’t, it would take all 6 turns for a trooper or commander to cross the length of the board. That kind of slow speed is crying out for a fast transport option, which simply does not exist within the game system (reinforcements isn’t comparable to repositioning troops)

This is only true in a few specific instances, any unit that can move two will have an easier time going from short side to short side. Only Breakthrough requires even getting to your opponent's deployment zone, and Long March has (I think?) a range 3 deployment zone. So you only have to get each squad leader 36" across the board. This is the absolute worst case scenario. A double moving Speed 1 (using the measurement of 8" movement) can get into the opponent's deployment zone by turn 5. Alternately, you use the slower moving units to prevent your opponent from getting their units into your deployment area. This ONLY comes up in a specific pair of Mission and Deployment cards, ONLY for the Speed 1 units, of which there are a total of 2, and isn't that big of a deal. Speed 2 units will have a much easier time, even if they have to double move once or twice. Every other Mission has objectives that are placed by the players, or on the centerline of the board. Transportation is not necessary.

Again, transports are typically used to deploy squads to the battlefield, not move them around while actively under fire, which is why Rapid Reinforcement is a decent abstraction of U-Wings and Shuttles dropping squads onto the battlefield. The U-Wing in Rogue One dropped off reinforcements and then provided covering fire (which is abstracted in cards like "Coordinated Bombardment"). As well, transportation would make the Disarray Deployment have even less impact, and getting to objectives significantly easier.

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

This is only true in a few specific instances, any unit that can move two will have an easier time going from short side to short side. Only Breakthrough requires even getting to your opponent's deployment zone, and Long March has (I think?) a range 3 deployment zone. So you only have to get each squad leader 36" across the board. This is the absolute worst case scenario. A double moving Speed 1 (using the measurement of 8" movement) can get into the opponent's deployment zone by turn 5. Alternately, you use the slower moving units to prevent your opponent from getting their units into your deployment area. This ONLY comes up in a specific pair of Mission and Deployment cards, ONLY for the Speed 1 units, of which there are a total of 2, and isn't that big of a deal. Speed 2 units will have a much easier time, even if they have to double move once or twice. Every other Mission has objectives that are placed by the players, or on the centerline of the board. Transportation is not necessary.

Again, transports are typically used to deploy squads to the battlefield, not move them around while actively under fire, which is why Rapid Reinforcement is a decent abstraction of U-Wings and Shuttles dropping squads onto the battlefield. The U-Wing in Rogue One dropped off reinforcements and then provided covering fire (which is abstracted in cards like "Coordinated Bombardment"). As well, transportation would make the Disarray Deployment have even less impact, and getting to objectives significantly easier.

So maybe for the U-wing we can have it as a unit card that can call in a ‘u-wing’. Basically it allows you to deploy troops Profundity style and also has an air strike attack. Maybe a foward observer style unit?

8 hours ago, Derrault said:

Except they aren’t, it would take all 6 turns for a trooper or commander to cross the length of the board. That kind of slow speed is crying out for a fast transport option, which simply does not exist within the game system (reinforcements isn’t comparable to repositioning troops)

Why do we need to cross the entire board? This game is not about destroying the enemy army, it's about winning objectives. If I could drop squads anywhere on the board with a U-Wing, it defeats the purpose of actually playing the game. I'll just drop and grab the objective.

I swear, it's like you have no idea what Legion is. But keep talking about how we need transports. It's not up to me or anyone else in this thread. It's up to FFG and they sure as **** don't allow fans to submit content to them.

7 hours ago, Jabby said:

So maybe for the U-wing we can have it as a unit card that can call in a ‘u-wing’. Basically it allows you to deploy troops Profundity style

You mean like "Rapid Reinforcements"?

7 hours ago, Jabby said:

also has an air strike attack. Maybe a foward observer style unit?

You mean like Leia's "Coordinated Bombardment" command card?

Well, looks like the U-wing is already in the game.

@Undeadguy In point of fact, Breakthrough grants victory points based on the surviving squads in the opponents deployment zone. That would make destroying or delaying enemy units equivalent to denying them game winning points.

Intercept the Transmission grants points based on control of 3 objectives by the end of turns 2, 4, and 6, making it explicitly valuable to transit extra units from areas that require little or no further defense and to locations where the enemy has a chance of taking/holding the points.

Key Positions operates similarly to ItT, except there is only one scoring round. As each point scores using first past the post method, it doesn't make any sense to over-do the number of units in each position.

As for deployment, you may want to recheck your assumptions. Major Offensive zone permits only extremely limited forward deployment, most units will have to traverse the length of the board. Disarray zones suffer from a similar problem, in that forces on each corner most likely will be unable to support any actions by the opposite corner for the duration of the game.

@Caimheul1313 No, that's now how Rapid Reinforcements works at all. RR requires reservation of 2 non-commander trooper units, denying them actions for 2 full turns (3 if you read the last line to mean that they don't get their actions) and prohibits their deployment to anywhere within range 2 of an enemy unit (meaning they won't be dropping onto virtually any objective tokens, AND they will miss the first scoring round for ItT).

What is being suggested is a unit, i.e. something that actually requires expense in a heavy slot and a troop cost from the total 800 value, which can (as its action) pick up and redeploy units in other locations of the battlefield.

There's no cross-section there with RR at all, and, as detailed, it would have a tangible and valuable impact on the outcome of games.

Coordinated Bombardment would be something that capital ships, or perhaps Bombers, do. U-Wings are basically the Star Wars Huey.
A gunship which can transit troops, not a bomber which neither transits troops not provides close air support.

You're each perfectly free not to purchase those options when they become available. But there's a clear canon case for these things existing, and they present an all too obviously useful ability in a war game that already models vehicles. The only thing missing is the exact cost to gain that advantage.

I can see it now...

*Vader teleports behind you, he’s in your deployment zone on turn one using a U-Wing model that takes up 1/3 of the board*

“Omae wa mou shindeiru”, he exclaims, before activating with Master of Evil and assigning 3 suppression tokens to all of your trooper squads.

“NANI!?”, the Rebel unit leader yells, before taking 6 red dice to the face and watching all of his allies Panic off the board on turn one.

1 hour ago, OMGBRICK said:

I can see it now...

*Vader teleports behind you, he’s in your deployment zone on turn one using a U-Wing model that takes up 1/3 of the board*

“Omae wa mou shindeiru”, he exclaims, before activating with Master of Evil and assigning 3 suppression tokens to all of your trooper squads.

“NANI!?”, the Rebel unit leader yells, before taking 6 red dice to the face and watching all of his allies Panic off the board on turn one.

A leader adding their courage to the units, that seems like a guaranteed way for Vader to die in the first round. (Even if a U-wing were an Imperial unit)

What you are describing is not how u-wings are used in the fiction. They make a single landing to drop off troops then provide close air support. What you want would be much better represented with an ifv or apc

Coordinated Bombardment is in no way a strike by capital ships. It's more akin to a strafing run or mortar barrage as it is just 3 very long range shots with a DTL-19 with immune deflect instead of impact.

4 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Coordinated Bombardment is in no way a strike by capital ships. It's more akin to a strafing run or mortar barrage as it is just 3 very long range shots with a DTL-19 with immune deflect instead of impact.

It’s fairly common in the Star Wars video games to have rangefinder binoculars to call in air strikes, not by Y-wing bombers or mortars (which it’s not even clear actually exist in Star Wars), but orbiting ships. Quite common.

I think mortars were used by clone troopers in the The Clone Wars episodes about the Battle of Umbara. I know that there’s a mortar card in Destiny too - but that’s not quite canon.

After watching the demo last night, there is no way we will get transports. Range 3 is flipping huge! And after moving speed 2, which looks to be 8 inches, you get to add another 18 inches to shoot the closest mini in the defending unit. So a your corp trooper range is effectively 26 inches. Or 10 inches short of the width of the play space. You will be rolling dice at the start of round 2 if you decide to force engagement. And speeder bikes move really fast. Speed 3 is 12 inches, don't quote me I didn't have a tape measure, so you can move 2 feet before getting an 18 inch shot off.

13 hours ago, OMGBRICK said:

I can see it now...

*Vader teleports behind you, he’s in your deployment zone on turn one using a U-Wing model that takes up 1/3 of the board*

“Omae wa mou shindeiru”, he exclaims, before activating with Master of Evil and assigning 3 suppression tokens to all of your trooper squads.

“NANI!?”, the Rebel unit leader yells, before taking 6 red dice to the face and watching all of his allies Panic off the board on turn one.

@Undeadguy a lot of times they’ll add a condition to disembarking from transports to solve this. Something like not being able to disembark on the same turn the transport moved or only being able to move when you disembark, etc. That shuts down the huge range bump you’d get. They already kind of emulated this with Rapid Reinforcements not arriving until end of Turn 2 and being unable to activate when they do.

I can see speed 2 APCs possibly fitting within the game mechanics. I tend to side with you when it comes to 20 meter long flying vehicles dropping troops anywhere on the battlefield though

1 hour ago, Derrault said:

It’s fairly common in the Star Wars video games to have rangefinder binoculars to call in air strikes, not by Y-wing bombers or mortars (which it’s not even clear actually exist in Star Wars), but orbiting ships. Quite common.

Quite common? As in, the two newest battlefront games which are trying to be Call of Duty? That's hardly "quite common" in the long history of Star Wars games.

It's more common in the RTS games and the new canon comics to have people call in bombing runs. Leia calls in a Y-wing bombardment on her location in an attempt to kill Vader, which is likely the specific event being referenced by the card. If it were supposed to be an orbital strike I would hope that capital ship weapons are at LEAST as effective as an "AT-AT" from Veer's command card, or at the very least more damaging that a portable man held weapon.

22 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Quite common? As in, the two newest battlefront games which are trying to be Call of Duty? That's hardly "quite common" in the long history of Star Wars games.

It's more common in the RTS games and the new canon comics to have people call in bombing runs. Leia calls in a Y-wing bombardment on her location in an attempt to kill Vader, which is likely the specific event being referenced by the card. If it were supposed to be an orbital strike I would hope that capital ship weapons are at LEAST as effective as an "AT-AT" from Veer's command card, or at the very least more damaging that a portable man held weapon.

Hey don’t jump on the battlefront hate train

8 minutes ago, Jabby said:

Hey don’t jump on the battlefront hate train

I apologize, imy intent was not to hate on Battlefront, just commenting that two games does not make something "quite common," especially games that are emulating/competing with a style of game where in the number of kills one inflicts before dying entitles one to call in battlefield resources.

34 minutes ago, Jabby said:

Hey don’t jump on the battlefront hate train

Be sure to paint Vader in pink just to spite EA!

2 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

After watching the demo last night, there is no way we will get transports. Range 3 is flipping huge! And after moving speed 2, which looks to be 8 inches, you get to add another 18 inches to shoot the closest mini in the defending unit. So a your corp trooper range is effectively 26 inches. Or 10 inches short of the width of the play space. You will be rolling dice at the start of round 2 if you decide to force engagement. And speeder bikes move really fast. Speed 3 is 12 inches, don't quote me I didn't have a tape measure, so you can move 2 feet before getting an 18 inch shot off.

Turns out the speeds are the following:

speed 1 - 3 inch
speed 2 - 5.1 inch
speed 3 - 7.3 inch

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Turns out the speeds are the following:

speed 1 - 3 inch
speed 2 - 5.1 inch
speed 3 - 7.3 inch

This is the length of the movement tools? This doesn't account for base size of minis? Base size makes a difference in threat range and movement.

Just now, NeonWolf said:

This is the length of the movement tools? This doesn't account for base size of minis? Base size makes a difference in threat range and movement.

Correct, it's just the tool.

Total movement of each base/Speed combination in inches (rounded to two decimal places, using Speed measurements from above and base sizes from this thread)

Base size: Speed 1| Speed 2 |Speed 3

27mm: 4.06 | 6.16 | 8.36

50mm: 4.97 | 7.07 | 9.27

70mm: 5.76 | 7.86 | 10.06

100mm: 6.94 | 9.04 | 11.24