9 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Scyk pays 2 for Missile slot too. And gets an extra Hull. Apparently it also gets to pay 2 for mod slot and also being dealt face down damage cards. 12 point filler or 20 point Harpoon boat?

A-wings get the shaft? It depends. A really good dial doesn’t seem to mean anything when you just throw 2 dice.

It CAN pay 2 for a missile slot, but it's a terrible idea, because it only gets one shot.

Scyks just generally don't work, even with the fixes. They're too fragile for their cost.

49 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It CAN pay 2 for a missile slot, but it's a terrible idea, because it only gets one shot.

Scyks just generally don't work, even with the fixes. They're too fragile for their cost.

16 points for 3 Hull one shield behind 3 dice, vs 17 pts 2 shield 2 Hull, both have one Missile shot. Are A-wings too fragile to take too or is everyone taken Aces and greens so they can have 2 EPTs?

Yes A Wings are too fragile, but also, A Wings have Boost and can take Autothrusters.

But more to the point, paying 2 points for a missile is bad, when you can pay 2 points for a cannon and keep shooting it forever, and make up for having a 2 primary.

But neither of them are competitively viable at the moment because 2 primary just can't cut it without some sort of infinite secondary weaponry.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

But neither of them are competitively viable at the moment because 2 primary just can't cut it without some sort of infinite secondary weaponry.

Hoe dare you talk about Sunny Bounder like that.

Linked battery sunny has at least a 2.5 primary.

And light Sunny is terrible.

Neither is actually viable at top tier.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

And light Sunny is terrible.

I’m surprised you say that so confidently as I’ve found her to consistently deliver beyond the 12 points she costs. Plus she’s loads of fun.

She’s certainly not top tier but that’s probably a compliment these days.

20 minutes ago, Vargas79 said:

I’m surprised you say that so confidently as I’ve found her to consistently deliver beyond the 12 points she costs. Plus she’s loads of fun.

She’s certainly not top tier but that’s probably a compliment these days.

You certainly don't build around her, but as a filler ship, she's one of the best in the business, whether in the 12 point bracket, or the 18 point bracket I keep ending up with in my builds.

2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

You certainly don't build around her, but as a filler ship, she's one of the best in the business, whether in the 12 point bracket, or the 18 point bracket I keep ending up with in my builds.

PS1 is definitely a perk in this meta as well, any chance to block Wookies is pretty nice.

Just now, Biophysical said:

PS1 is definitely a perk in this meta as well, any chance to block Wookies is pretty nice.

Definitely. I usually have her as bait/blocker. They go after her, it buys my other ships more time. If they ignore her, blocking becomes easier and she can surprise someone with her ability allowing her to hit above her weight, with the Linked Battery version doing this more consistently.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Definitely. I usually have her as bait/blocker. They go after her, it buys my other ships more time. If they ignore her, blocking becomes easier and she can surprise someone with her ability allowing her to hit above her weight, with the Linked Battery version doing this more consistently.

This is it. I find a lot of people tend to ignore her until she starts to dish out respectable levels of damage.

5 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Definitely. I usually have her as bait/blocker. They go after her, it buys my other ships more time. If they ignore her, blocking becomes easier and she can surprise someone with her ability allowing her to hit above her weight, with the Linked Battery version doing this more consistently.

I use her also as a potential trigger for my scavenger reload. If I did not manage to kill an enemy that round, her being killed gives extra mileage of her cheap 12 points by reloading my other ship (s).

And as we sidetrack Scyks here: Genesis Red has some useage, esp with a control cannon like Flechette or Ion.

@thespaceinvader Quinn Jast fires potentially more than once, as he has reload. But is expensive, and my feeling was either dies too fast or is too long out of combat trying to reload.

1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

I use her also as a potential trigger for my scavenger reload. If I did not manage to kill an enemy that round, her being killed gives extra mileage of her cheap 12 points by reloading my other ship (s).

And as we sidetrack Scyks here: Genesis Red has some useage, esp with a control cannon like Flechette or Ion.

@thespaceinvader Quinn Jast fires potentially more than once, as he has reload. But is expensive, and my feeling was either dies too fast or is too long out of combat trying to reload.

Quinn is the exception, but he just dies too quickly to make use of the reloads IME.

Even with the fix, Scyks sctill scuk, scadly.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Even with the fix, Scyks sctill scuk, scadly.

? makes me sco scad. Poor Scyk, I’ve come to love that ugly little bug schip.

On 18/02/2018 at 1:32 AM, GrimmyV said:

Leia took over as senator from Bail Organa, who was very active in the Alliance to Restore the Rebuplic, aquiring ships and equipment, while Leia was doing her duty as a spy and using her political influence to help the Alliance gain support in the senate. Mothma was the public face of the Alliance, a symbol, and functioned as the Head of State and dealt directly with actors or factions outside of the Empire. Being ‘out’ as a Rebel has more to do with your job within the Alliance than how brave you are or how much you sacrificed. Leia was fully prepared to give up her life for the cause but she had to give up so much more, I would say more than any other character in SW.

You raise a fair point. Those most focused on as "Rebels" have sacrificed way less than the true key players in the Alliance. Ezra, Saw, Ahsoka and so on have made meaningful sacrifices, but not on the scale of Leia or Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan gave up his order, his generalship in the greatest army ever known and his status as Jedi to protect Luke on Tattooine.

On 2/17/2018 at 12:03 AM, Velvetelvis said:

I learned everything I needed to know about this issue from 'Clerks'.

While that conversation is funny, it really doesn't hold any water if someone is actually trying to argue that point.

There were civilians on the death star so blowing up the death star kills innocents and is therefore an evil act. Okay, so the correct thing to do is let the death star go around and kill billions and billions of innocent people at a time, as well as making many native flora and fauna extinct and destroying whatever resources of the many planets they'd destroy?

Signing up for a project like the death star automatically makes you no longer an innocent bystander.

" I didn't massacre billions of innocent people, I just supported those that did." Is not a defensible argument.

At the very least, non-military personnel on the death star had to realize the very existence of such a weapon is abhorrent, and by working on the death star, they are willingly standing in the middle of the highest priority target that could ever exist.

99.9999% of the people on the death star, cooks, construction workers, and military wives alike deserved to die for being complicit in the mass murder machine and the galaxy immediately became a brighter place the moment their lives were ended.

I'll pour one out for everyone else who died in a tragic, but necessary exchange.

Almost 25 years later and I don’t buy the Clerks argument. The 2nd DS would have had a massive droid labor force overseen by paid Imperial armed forces construction foremen, like the Army core of engineers or the SeaBees. The DS was a secret military installation, not some pleasure yacht. Cooks, janitors, etc on the space station may not have been stormtroopers (Finn argues othetwise) but they were part of the Imperial armed forces, or droids. Contractors may have existed in the Empire (KDY, Seinar) but no one who sees the incomplete DS2 could doubt what it’s purpose was just a handful of years following the destruction of Alderaan.

And I seriously doubt spouses or families would have been allowed on board. The only civilians I saw were a bunch of old funny-hat-wearing white guys hanging out with the emperor. And I’m sure those guys were definitely up to no good.

the only casualties from either DS splosion that I would consider innocent were the potential prisoners on board. But with the Imperial attitude towards prisoners to be torture then kill or just kill, I doubt that population was too high. The DS was also a place of executions, just another reason for the Death part of its name.

(also I like to think Finn’s job as a janitor was a sly reference to Clerks, but that’s giving way too much credit to JJ)

All weapon manufacturers are guilty then

6 minutes ago, vtarin said:

All weapon manufacturers are guilty then

Some do indeed make this argument in the real world.

4 minutes ago, vtarin said:

All weapon manufacturers are guilty then.

I loan your construction Droids for your moon sized planet killer, maybe not knowing what you’re doing but knowing last time I lent you this much stuff a Death Star appeared, yes.

I sell you a plane for national defense and you invade another country’s airspace and drop bombs on the McDonald’s, does that make me liable? Some people argue yes, some argue no.

DJ certainly did argue yes in TLJ.

2 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

DJ certainly did argue yes in TLJ.

His ethical and moral positions are highly dubious, but he’s got a point. His motto would be Don’t Join, because no ‘side’ is 100% ‘right’. The Rebellion won but the New Republic let the FO grow like a cancer while (not so) secretly allowing the Resistence to check the FO’s influence. The Resistence ‘does the right thing’ but seemingly also buys weapons from profiteers who sell to both sides. The ‘clear cut’ morality of the OT has been shattered! What are we to do? We’ve never had to deal with morally ambiguous characters before ?

4 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

drop bombs on the McDonald’s,

NOOOOOO!!! Not the Hamburgler!!

41 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Some do indeed make this argument in the real world.

Strongly depends on your empathy for the people finding themselves on the wrong side of the gun.

1 hour ago, vtarin said:

All weapon manufacturers are guilty then

Guilty or not, bombing a weapons factory in wartime was never a morally ambiguous act.

@Civilians and the Peace Moon

If a captain of a battleship took his wife and kids on board before sailing into battle, he couldn't blame anyone else but himself for their demise.

Likewise, if there were any civilians on either Death Star their blood is on the Empire's hand.

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Cooks, janitors, etc on the space station may not have been stormtroopers (Finn argues othetwise) but they were part of the Imperial armed forces, or droids.

In the old Expanded Universe they'd only let Daala be a cook until she beat Tarkin in a military simulation and he promoted her (and allegedly made her his mistress, but that's beside the point).

2 hours ago, vtarin said:

All weapon manufacturers are guilty then

There's a gigantic difference between a standard gun and a DEATH Star.

A pistol can be used for competition shooting, for self defense, or for policing.

A weapon designed to destroy entire planets has no purpose other than to commit crimes against humanity. It's not a weapon of war, because the vast, vast majority of the population of a planet at war with the Empire would be innocent civilians. Neutralizing a military threat would be a side-effect of using the death star.

Its destructive power is so indiscriminate that "weapon of mass destruction" fails to capture the scale of it. "Weapon of Total Extinction" is more fitting. Can you think of a single legitimate use of a weapon designed to kill billions at a time? Target practice? Self-defense? No, of course not.

And the 3 uses we saw of the Death Star were:

1) Wipe out a population to keep them quiet about the Death Star

2) Friendly fire to keep cover up the Empire's failure to protect the death star's plans.

3) To destroy the home planet of a single prisoner who was being difficult.

So no, I don't think all weapons manufacturers are guilty. But weapons manufacturers who designed weapons primary to kill innocents by the billions and selling them to bloodthirsty regimes certainly are.

If you can't see the difference, that's on you.