Tanking in games only really matters in video games. Such games usually have an invisible hate or enmity mechanic that tells who the NPCs should be attacking. While not universal, games usually follow a certain formula: healing generates large amounts of enmity, followed by the highest damage dealer. Tank classes typically have abilities that generate high levels of enmity, making them priority number one to kill. They also typically have higher levels of health and/or defense than other classes, meaning they can eat more attacks than the healers and damage dealers.

Some games mix things up by painting their tank classes in different ways. The Warrior from FFXIV, for example, has less defense than other tanks, but has a high damage output and the ability to recover health based on damage dealt. They essentially tank by being the biggest threat in the room.

Mechanically, the Sith Juggernaut from SW:TOR served as a tank class. However, the inspiration for that class was Darth Vader, who was hardly one to let himself be hit, or one to just stand back and block.

If we're discussing semantics, "juggernaut" as a word does not convey the idea of a defensive fighter , but an offensive one . That doesn't mean a hypothetical Juggernaut spec couldn't work as a tank, but it would mostly be by building up a lot of hate. Genesys' Realms of Terrinoth actually has a talent that works like this called Challenge!, which adds boost to attacks targeting the character, but setback to attacks targeting their allies.

I would argue that the "juggernaut" is a subset of the "tank" type. To be unstoppable, you've gotta have a way of shrugging off damage, which is the tank's thing.

14 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

I would argue that the "juggernaut" is a subset of the "tank" type. To be unstoppable, you've gotta have a way of shrugging off damage, which is the tank's thing.

Well, the dictionary definition doesn't really mean "unstoppable," just destructive, if you want to be literal.

There are a lot of tank types.

1. Damage sponges. They just have a lot of health so they can take massive hits and get healed. (Not entirely practical in FFG Star Wars due to heal limits.

2. Dodge Tanks: They dodge attacks and thus take no real damage.

3. Parry/Reflect Tanks: Lots of Parry and Reflect that reduces the damage to practically nothing and are impractical for FFG Star Wars due rules + xp costs...

13 minutes ago, Decorus said:

There are a lot of tank types.

1. Damage sponges. They just have a lot of health so they can take massive hits and get healed. (Not entirely practical in FFG Star Wars due to heal limits.

2. Dodge Tanks: They dodge attacks and thus take no real damage.

3. Parry/Reflect Tanks: Lots of Parry and Reflect that reduces the damage to practically nothing and are impractical for FFG Star Wars due rules + xp costs...

I wouldn’t say the rules prohibit, or make impractical any of those types of “Tanks”, particularly the last one. Remember, unlike D&D, there is no cap on how high a character can advance in terms of XP earned over time. And the Damage Sponge is pretty easy to build if he has the right armor. The Armorer spec is basically designed to be a “damage sponge”.

1 hour ago, Swordbreaker said:

Well, the dictionary definition doesn't really mean "unstoppable," just destructive, if you want to be literal.

From Merriam Webster: "a massive inexorable force, campaign, movement, or object that crushes whatever is in its path."

It's a complicated word but the connotation is certainly there.

But anyways I wasn't trying to be "literal" so much as just using the common gaming parliance. (I got Mass Effect 3 for super cheap on Xbox Live a couple months ago, and I'm having a blast with the Geth Juggernaut in multiplayer—talk about an inexorable force!)

Of course, you also have different kinds of tanks. You have your main battle tank, your armored recovery vehicle, your armored fighting vehicle, your armored personnel carrier, your armored bridge layer, your flame-thrower tank, your tracked anti-aircraft gun, your amphibeous tank, as well as specially equipped tanks for sweeping or laying mines. I would propse, just as you can kit out a real world warfighting tank for different applications, so too you can kit out a tough-armored warrior in roleplaying games for different applications. Ergo, different kinds of "tanks." A war over balkanized pedantic nomenclature overlooks the fact that there are variations on the general theme. This is sometimes referred to as not being able to see the forrest due to an intensive focus on a single tree.

2 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

From Merriam Webster: "a massive inexorable force, campaign, movement, or object that crushes whatever is in its path."

It's a complicated word but the connotation is certainly there.

But anyways I wasn't trying to be "literal" so much as just using the common gaming parliance. (I got Mass Effect 3 for super cheap on Xbox Live a couple months ago, and I'm having a blast with the Geth Juggernaut in multiplayer—talk about an inexorable force!)

Spec the N7 Destroyer to have increased defences and ammo and for AoE multi-grenades, slap the Cerberus Harrier on him and the definition of 'tank' becomes the same as a Tank vehicle. Mobile weapons platform.

@awayputurwpn the Geth Juggernaut can solo the hardest difficulty mode if you want to do that. Though four of them can do it easy.

Anything can solo a platinum match, just a lot harder on most classes. Geth Jug, Krogan Adept, N7 Destroyer and the newest Turian I cant remember the name of can all do it a bit easier.

I just got the Cabal, is that the Turian you're thinking of? Reminds me of a poisoner rogueish character I played for a few sessions back in the day, including the teleport ability. I don't have the N7 Destroyer yet or any of the good guns still working on it.

The N7 destroyer is so much fun, I love playing him with the biggest machine gun they got. I'm not good at aim so the more bullets the better.

Got my notice: should have it in hands next Wednesday!

Let us know if we get the Noghri or Echani as races in this one.

I'd like to see:

• Something that lets me make Vader. Specifically the Vader we see in that corridor scene of rogue one, where he casually intermixes force powers (protect, bind) and melee attacks. A true "force warrior"
• Something that leverages the fact that these are the "strength" based saber fighters. Where the fighting style is about raw power and just beating your opponent down. I know you could argue aggressor has this...but I don't quiet see it. I mean the fighting style Savage Opress would use. Kind of the force version of maurader.
• Duel wielding - think melee gun slinger
• Unarmed and/or melee combat. Sort of the force version of martial artist.

5 more days. Hopefully tracking drops a day like UP did

No new articles here either? Weird.

1 hour ago, Luahk said:

No new articles here either? Weird.

Probably tuesday

On 6/15/2018 at 11:53 AM, Ogbar said:

I'd like to see:

• Something that lets me make Vader. Specifically the Vader we see in that corridor scene of rogue one, where he casually intermixes force powers (protect, bind) and melee attacks. A true "force warrior"

I know its not considered the power spec for lightsaber monkeys, but Niman Disciple covers it. Narratively, Move Closer and Force Assault can facilitate "The Full Vader" from Rogue One . A dollop of The Force is My Ally from another tree for flexibility and viola! And, based on what we see in the movies, Vader really doesn't need a super-high Force rating.

Vader has been fetishized and mythologized by fans into an invincible dark god, but his primary force using opposition is OT Luke Skywalker. Prior to Vader's death, Luke was was a greenhorn Jedi. The throne room scene was likely his Jedi trials. He really wasn't that powerful. And, in A New Hope, Obi-Wan let Vader kill him because destiny had to play itself out. Killing Vader himself would not have redeemed Anakin and brought down the Empire. It had to be Luke because "love conquers all." We don't know how that would have played out otherwise. What if Obi-Wan had been less wise? He might have won!

An Old Republic Jedi Knight with Lightsaber-4, Force Rating-4, three trees, and some decent force powers should be able to give movie Vader a run for his money. Killing minion groups of rebel soldiers on screen looks Totally Awesome! (TM), but... I have a player with a padawan survivor in my game with Force Rating-2, lightsaber-2, the full shadow tree, and half of the shien tree who eats minion groups of stormtroopers for breakfast. In our last game she took down seven stormtroopers and was barely grazed by blaster fire, all without intermixing move. All she used was force leap and sense for defense. There's very little Luke from Return of the Jedi could do that she can't at this point.

I'd build Vader with four trees: Aggressor, Shii-Cho, Niman, and one to flavor for taste. He's scary, but he's not all that fan-**** has made him out to be. IMO. Of course.

@Vondy I find your lack of faith Disturbing.

If you take the OT in a vacuum then none of the Jedi or Sith featured seem impressive. If you add the PT then both Vader and Luke get a huge power boost with Anakin being basically Force Jesus and Luke being Force Jesus' son. Then add the current cannons Vader Comics and you'll notice he could take on a rebel army by himself! So pushover he is not!

36 minutes ago, Shlambate said:

@Vondy I find your lack of faith Disturbing.

If you take the OT in a vacuum then none of the Jedi or Sith featured seem impressive. If you add the PT then both Vader and Luke get a huge power boost with Anakin being basically Force Jesus and Luke being Force Jesus' son. Then add the current cannons Vader Comics and you'll notice he could take on a rebel army by himself! So pushover he is not!

@Shlambate I find your faith unappealing. The ability to construct a nonsensical fan-**** villian cult is insignificant in comparison to the power of a sober assessment of the actual film canon.

I ignore all comics and video games when evaluating character builds. Those mediums are often patently ridiculous and frequently do a disservice to the source material.

That said, even with the PT casting Anakin as "force jesus" he doesn't actually do anything on screen that merits the sheer volumes of fan-**** and mythologized reverence commonly attributed to them. He doesn't live up to the fanboy hype.

Nor, even with that premise, does it change what we see Luke is capable of on screen, which doesn't merit more than a force rating of 2-3, lightsaber-3, the shien tree, and some modest force powers.

If you don't like the comics then what about Rebels, where he lifts an AT-ST off from on top of him? While fighting the entirety of phoenix squadron which can't be dismissed as a minion group such as the Rogue one scene? A few force points doesnt survive an AT-ST then lift it off of your head.

The film cannon currently includes anything Disney deems as cannon so Vader is deemed a super powered being. If this was back when Lucas was in charge and there were 20 different cannons I would agree with you, but now there is one, and Vader is OP.

2 hours ago, Shlambate said:

If you don't like the comics then what about Rebels, where he lifts an AT-ST off from on top of him? While fighting the entirety of phoenix squadron which can't be dismissed as a minion group such as the Rogue one scene? A few force points doesnt survive an AT-ST then lift it off of your head.

The film cannon currently includes anything Disney deems as cannon so Vader is deemed a super powered being. If this was back when Lucas was in charge and there were 20 different cannons I would agree with you, but now there is one, and Vader is OP.

Yaaaaaaawn! I do "films only canon" and regard all the rest of it apochryphal. The Mouse may say its all canon now, but The Mouse doesn't get to tell me jack about what I do and don't like or use or include in my lifelong fandom. For them its all a marketing cash grab. The Mouse has neither art nor passion. I grew up on the OT, tolerated the PT, and have found the new trilogy films to date hyper-frenetic-kinetic and, for the most part, not particuliarly good cinema, though enjoyable as popcorn films. From a film criticism perspective, Solo is better than either of them. Film Vader is as I said he was, and you even agreed with that, so let it go. I'm into Star Wars as films because that's their native media as well as being the medium I consume Star Wars in. Comic? Video Games? Cartoons? If that's how you consume Star Wars then more power to you and have at it! But, for those of use who relate to Star Wars as a a coherent and concise cinema-experience that does nothing. After all, I can't afford the mass-marketed cross-platform Disney Star Wars. I work for a living!

3 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Yaaaaaaawn! I do "films only canon" and regard all the rest of it apochryphal. The Mouse may say its all canon now, but The Mouse doesn't get to tell me jack about what I do and don't like or use or include in my lifelong fandom. For them its all a marketing cash grab. The Mouse has neither art nor passion. I grew up on the OT, tolerated the PT, and have found the new trilogy films to date hyper-frenetic-kinetic and, for the most part, not particuliarly good cinema, though enjoyable as popcorn films. From a film criticism perspective, Solo is better than either of them. Film Vader is as I said he was, and you even agreed with that, so let it go. I'm into Star Wars as films because that's their native media as well as being the medium I consume Star Wars in. Comic? Video Games? Cartoons? If that's how you consume Star Wars then more power to you and have at it! But, for those of use who relate to Star Wars as a a coherent and concise cinema-experience that does nothing. After all, I can't afford the mass-marketed cross-platform Disney Star Wars. I work for a living!

Double yaaaaaaawn!

Yes but my point is by the OT and OT alone no one is an impressive force user except Yoda and the Emperor. The other four do not much with the force the one who does the most happens to be Vader in ESB where he throws all sorts of Debris at Luke.

To your point about the Mouses movies being marketing, so we're Lucas' films all of them were ads for his toys.

What I can agree with is that the Sequel movies aren't the greatest.