For "standard" size i'm happy with 800. It is slightly restrictive, but that just means you have to make real choices in list building.

For casual games though i expect we'll be playing a lot more than that fairly often.

59 minutes ago, Extropia said:

For "standard" size i'm happy with 800. It is slightly restrictive, but that just means you have to make real choices in list building.

For casual games though i expect we'll be playing a lot more than that fairly often.

^this

I don't see "standard" or competitive games getting much bigger than 800 points because games will run too long for the competitive scene.

On the other hand i fully expect to see shots and reports of 2000+ point major battles played on floors with scale atst's etc using house rules appear on the forums, along with everything in between.

51 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

^this

I don't see "standard" or competitive games getting much bigger than 800 points because games will run too long for the competitive scene.

On the other hand i fully expect to see shots and reports of 2000+ point major battles played on floors with scale atst's etc using house rules appear on the forums, along with everything in between.

Agreed; As well 1200 pts on a 6x4 map.

There are a ton of 6x4 gaming mats available by various suppliers too

I doubt time will be a restriction for Legion. It will take 1-2 hours compared to the minimum 2 hours for Armada. Tourny regs have Armada at 2 hours and 15 minutes per round, so I'd guess Legion will be much quicker than that. I find it very likely the point cap will be increased for wave 2 or 3.

One of the nice things about this low point limit is that it makes Vader and Luke harder to kill. I imagine in a much higher point game it wouldn't be uncommon for those two to get taken out fairly easily within a round or two of concentrated fire. I remember playing 40k and having 500 point super powerful units get dropped in one turn if the entire army focuses fire on it. I would hate to see that kind of thing happen to Vader and Luke.

Just now, Omnustechni said:

One of the nice things about this low point limit is that it makes Vader and Luke harder to kill. I imagine in a much higher point game it wouldn't be uncommon for those two to get taken out fairly easily within a round or two of concentrated fire. I remember playing 40k and having 500 point super powerful units get dropped in one turn if the entire army focuses fire on it. I would hate to see that kind of thing happen to Vader and Luke.

Very good point. 40K is a good example, but any game where that level of fire can be brought to bear makes the "iconic" units much less effective.

As others have said, having a point cap forces you to make difficult choices - list building is an important part of the game and where you develop your basic strategy.

If you can just throw in lots of units and upgrades it diminished that aspect of the game.

10 minutes ago, Ghost Dancer said:

If you can just throw in lots of units and upgrades it diminished that aspect of the game.

I think it's too late to back track on that now. DLT-19 have range 1-4, Impact 1, and 2 red dice for 24 points compared to the HH-12 which is exhaust, can't move n shoot, and 3 black dice with Impact 3 for 34 points.

DLT is superior in every way EXCEPT HH-12 adds Impact 3 to the entire attack pool compared to Impact 1.

Same for the AT-RT. If you're looking to add Armor to your army, AT-RT is the way to go. 85 points with the Rotary Blaster dumping 5 black dice, and you can take 3 for the price of a loaded AT-ST.

I understand it's only wave 1, but the AT-RT and DLT are already restricting because they are so cheap. You can easily spam them and overwhelm with a lot of dice.

13 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Not being able to fit everything in you want is kind of part of the point of having a points cap on army building. The other part being, having a game balanced for a particular points cost helps decide the points value of later units and upgrades.

Armada caps at 400 which forces people to choose an archetype (Carriers and fighters, few large ships, multiple small ships). Same for Legion. Want to field two AT-STs? Go ahead, but you'll be skimping somewhere to find the points. With Veers I can make (probably, would need playtesting) a decent list with 4 Stormtrooper units, with DLT-19s in 3 of them, and a similar sized Rebel list with 2 T-47s. We may get cheaper Heavy options such as E-Web blasters, or AT-DPs, which will further change how lists look, much like Veers and Leia will once people have an option for a cheaper Commander.

I always find it a little curious as a criticism. "I can't fit everything I want!" "Yes... so?"

I think it comes down to expectations. People want to have a Star Destroyer AND a whole heap of fighters AND escorts to accompany it AND small zippy attack ships. I don't think the names help either. "Armada" when in fact you might be generous calling the collections of ships you use "squadrons" . And I guess "Star Wars: Legion" sounds cooler than "Star Wars: Reinforced Platoon"

2 hours ago, borithan said:

I always find it a little curious as a criticism. "I can't fit everything I want!" "Yes... so?"

I think it comes down to expectations. People want to have a Star Destroyer AND a whole heap of fighters AND escorts to accompany it AND small zippy attack ships. I don't think the names help either. "Armada" when in fact you might be generous calling the collections of ships you use "squadrons" . And I guess "Star Wars: Legion" sounds cooler than "Star Wars: Reinforced Platoon"

I agree 100%. The name Legion made me think the squads would be larger than 6 models, and in fact would probably make perfect sense for say a 15mm Star Wars game. Heck, X-wing you don't even typically field a full squadron of 12, just a couple elements, yet basically all the list building tools call themselves "Squadron builders".

No matter what the point value is set at, there will always be some hard decisions to be made regarding what units to field. Even if they raise the cap to 1000, people will still complain about either the points or the Force Org chart preventing them from fielding the toys they want. Once either of the sides gets a second heavy unit, I'm sure there will be people that want to field 2 of the new, cheaper unit, and still include an AT-ST/T-47.

Field what you want in casual games so long as you get your opponent's approval. Just because official games are played at 800 doesn't mean you are restricted outside of those events.

10 hours ago, borithan said:

I always find it a little curious as a criticism. "I can't fit everything I want!" "Yes... so?"

I think it comes down to expectations. People want to have a Star Destroyer AND a whole heap of fighters AND escorts to accompany it AND small zippy attack ships. I don't think the names help either. "Armada" when in fact you might be generous calling the collections of ships you use "squadrons" . And I guess "Star Wars: Legion" sounds cooler than "Star Wars: Reinforced Platoon"

I think this is a key point. Not being able to fit everything is the point. If I want to use Vader AND an AT-ST, then I have to be much smarter about how I am using them to control the board, since I won't have as many units to swarm.

Alternatively, being able to field a Commander and a boatload of Stormtroopers will make it easy to spread out across the board, but you sacrifice fire power.

2 AT-STs likely means you have to use cheaper Commanders.

Sacrifice is part of the strategy.

48 minutes ago, Copes said:

I think this is a key point. Not being able to fit everything is the point. If I want to use Vader AND an AT-ST, then I have to be much smarter about how I am using them to control the board, since I won't have as many units to swarm.

Alternatively, being able to field a Commander and a boatload of Stormtroopers will make it easy to spread out across the board, but you sacrifice fire power.

2 AT-STs likely means you have to use cheaper Commanders.

Sacrifice is part of the strategy.

There will still be plenty of sacrifice at 1000 points once there are 2 or 3 of each class available to choose from. These types of games seem to always make you leave stuff out even if there is a point increase.

Yeah don't get the 800 points means you have to make choices . At the moment a 800 point army is basically the released units. Once we get more support choices there will be just as many choices at 1000 points if not more

7 hours ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

Yeah don't get the 800 points means you have to make choices . At the moment a 800 point army is basically the released units. Once we get more support choices there will be just as many choices at 1000 points if not more

I would accept this argument more readily if both the Rebel and Empire forces were barely managing to get to 800 points with the inclusion of the AT-ST and T-47, however I can make lists with a decent amount of variation given only a single unit option for each Force Org slot at 800 points, with or without those two expensive models. Unlike Armada, it seems they are releasing two (EDIT: 4) units likely to be on the high end of the points cost right away. If people are finding 800 points restrictive now, with this lower amount of unit options, why would increasing the value by 200 points entirely resolve this issue, particularly when there are even more fun units to choose between?

Given that FFG as far as I recall indicated the points would increase for Armada in the article for organized play released just before the game's official launch, I wouldn't necessary count on FFG planning on increasing the points for official play. If they are planning on it, we may at least hear about it fairly early into the OP rules.

I am perfectly happy with 800 points. I simply make my adjustments - I am unlikely to take Vader & ATST. I am more likely to take troopers or support to back Vader. Once Veers is out, the options expand significantly.

The only thing I am concerned with is the relative cheapness of the ATRT for what you get. The t47 is a gray area, but only because the compulsory move make sure it harder to utilize effectively. We shall see what happens long term.

Restrictive is good. Hard choices make for a good game. If everybody can bring everything, forces will be uniform, which is boring.

Working within constraints is fun.

1 hour ago, steveisbig said:

Working within constraints is fun.

All functional games have rules, so yes.