On another topic from my most recent one, just trying to grasp; how did the game get away so much from primaries being, well, primary? The anxiety of unlimited bombs, the frustration of a singular splash missile that has become auto include, (and makes all other torpedoes/missiles obsolete) the disdain for a turret that propels three pilots into the meta forever until changed, it seems there just isn't a lot of primary weapon played x-wing. I have only been playing since wave 8. Was it Fat Han? Swarms? Designer's shame is seeing so many tournament matches go to time so the need to get ships off the board more quickly became paramount?

Can't help but think; if range 3 defense bonuses were granted universally, maybe it fixes all of it? Range 2 becomes critical and requires more piloting. Primary weapons might have more emphasis as secondaries become more tactical. It doesn't fix bomb wing, but a new modification 1 point (there's so few, why?) one time use to ignore could be helpful.

Just wondering...

Pretty simple really.

Regen, Defensive Combos, and ships with ridiculous amounts of health.

Bombs and TLT I imagine were a direct response to Palp before they nerfed it, though I wasn't around then.

Start giving out awesome EPTs that only work with primaries. Like expose, what an amazing upgrade! Except that it’s an action and lowers your agi.

a 1-2 pt ept that increases your primary by one while in arc would be great, except every ship with EPT could use it, even the ones that already use secondaries. Perhaps it could be 0 pts and it bans secondary weapons and bombs from being equipped.

7 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Pretty simple really.

Regen, Defensive Combos, and ships with ridiculous amounts of health.

Bombs and TLT I imagine were a direct response to Palp before they nerfed it, though I wasn't around then.

Funny how each of the things you mention are directly attributed to easy mode build Rebels, instead of the faction that requires arguably the most skill to fly.

In my opinion, it comes down to modularity. If you can pick and choose your weapon to put on the chassis, it's going to be more efficient that whatever primary weapon was there. That, and without a really, really big gun/missile, you're not going to be able to hit a lot of the super defensive aces.

I have said many times that I think making range bonuses apply to cannons and turrets would help. I think that the missiles and torpedoes are actually good without having that apply - it's kind of their point, that they behave differently than most weapons.

I have seen the idea of an anti-bomb modification many times, and I don't like it. First of all, the modification is a very busy slot, and filling it with something massively hurts whatever ship it's on. Secondly, and more importantly, if you have a card that only works against one specific kind of opponent, it's a completely wasted card any time you don't run into that kind of opponent. An anti-bomb modification is going to make you have a very sad day if you play against Wookiees, Kanan/Fenn, QD/Nu/Nu/Nu, or any of the other top lists that don't use bombs.

Guidance chips. Its a guaranteed hit.

LRS helps low ps get locks for engagement, a big problem back then for ordnance.

No range bonus.

4 attack dice

Missile or Torpedo effect.

All that above combined, makes a first engagement strike very appealing compared to primarys:

No guaranteed hit.

Range bonus

No special effect.

2 or 3 attack dice.

8 minutes ago, wurms said:

Guidance chips. Its a guaranteed hit.

LRS helps low ps get locks for engagement, a big problem back then for ordnance.

No range bonus.

4 attack dice

Missile or Torpedo effect.

All that above combined, makes a first engagement strike very appealing compared to primarys:

No guaranteed hit.

Range bonus

No special effect.

2 or 3 attack dice.

I’d like to point out that some primaries are naturally 1 or 4 dice, and secondaries have a range of 1-5 dice. Also what is this Torp/missile effect? You mean the small print on the upgrade card?

FFG incompetence.

43 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

I’d like to point out that some primaries are naturally 1 or 4 dice, and secondaries have a range of 1-5 dice. Also what is this Torp/missile effect? You mean the small print on the upgrade card?

Obviously there is 1 and 4 attack dice but 95% of ships in the game are 2 and 3.

The effect is the ability of the torpedo or missile. Plasma erases an extra shield, harpoons add the Harpooned Condition, etc.

58 minutes ago, wurms said:

Guidance chips. Its a guaranteed hit.

LRS helps low ps get locks for engagement, a big problem back then for ordnance.

No range bonus.

4 attack dice

Missile or Torpedo effect.

All that above combined, makes a first engagement strike very appealing compared to primarys:

No guaranteed hit.

Range bonus

No special effect.

2 or 3 attack dice.

Outside of the No Range Bonus TLTs have literally nothing of what you list. So I guess we can give you one thing out of the list.

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

Start giving out awesome EPTs that only work with primaries.

This is a good idea.

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

I have said many times that I think making range bonuses apply to cannons and turrets would help. I think that the missiles and torpedoes are actually good without having that apply - it's kind of their point, that they behave differently than most weapons.

Secondaries should be weapons that are inferior but allow you to do something special--like fire out of arc.

Failing that, I like your idea.

Secondary weapons has been fixed a little to well. Combine that with the no extra green range 3 die and you have your answear. TLT and harpoons are currently ruining my game, I simply can't be bothered to play against lists with them, as I don't enjoy the gameplay.

I guess FFG figured good secondaries can help under performing ships, problem is that it can make the good to great ships over powering.

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Pretty simple really.

Regen, Defensive Combos, and ships with ridiculous amounts of health.

Bombs and TLT I imagine were a direct response to Palp before they nerfed it, though I wasn't around then.

TLT was a direct response to the "aces" part of palp aces, namely Soontir Fel. Because Fel doesn't have unlimited tokens and palps was once per round the idea was that you could shoot soontir twice, and he would burn all of his tokens and palps ability and take a hit sooner or later. This actually turned out to work way to good.

Bombs were just this thing that came out in wave 2 that sort of countered the tie swarm if you could pull it off right. They've been messing around with bombs for awhile. I don't anyone expected them to blow up as big as they did.

57 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I don't anyone expected them to blow up as big as they did.

So after „Don‘t nerf harpoons“, „Do nerf harpoons“, „Nerf TLT“ we extrapolate now to „nerf secondary weapons“?!

Please tell me which other secondary weapons are dominating?

And if it is just TLT and Harpoons: why exactly do we now need this thread in addition to the others?

This is what happens when people demand better and better missiles, torpedoes, and bombs.

4 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Start giving out awesome EPTs that only work with primaries. Like expose, what an amazing upgrade! Except that it’s an action and lowers your agi.

a 1-2 pt ept that increases your primary by one while in arc would be great, except every ship with EPT could use it, even the ones that already use secondaries. Perhaps it could be 0 pts and it bans secondary weapons and bombs from being equipped.

I like the idea. But poor generics left in the dust again.

Maybe a modification at 1 point that removes all secondary slots.

4 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

This is what happens when people demand better and better missiles, torpedoes, and bombs.

I thought Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles were just fine with Chimps and LRS.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

So after „Don‘t nerf harpoons“, „Do nerf harpoons“, „Nerf TLT“ we extrapolate now to „nerf secondary weapons“?!

Please tell me which other secondary weapons are dominating?

And if it is just TLT and Harpoons: why exactly do we now need this thread in addition to the others?

Soon the only playable ship will be a naked hawk with no upgrades.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Soon the only playable ship will be a naked hawk with no upgrades.

anything that's better than a 12pt TIE is OP and should be nerfed... /s

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

anything that's better than a 12pt TIE is OP and should be nerfed... /s

I agree

I agree

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

anything that's better than a 12pt TIE is OP and should be nerfed... /s

Hmm. I am not sure that the sarcasm is really needed, because it would indeed be a solid base-line. Not that it would cover synergies at all, because a 12 point TIE is a lot better with howlrunner. ;-)
Synergies are on of the reasons we get a new perfect storm with every release.

4 hours ago, Sithborg said:

This is what happens when people demand better and better missiles, torpedoes, and bombs.

Better?? I just wanted them to work. I can remember when they weren't even worth the cardboard they were printed on. . .

2 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Synergies are on of the reasons we get a new perfect storm with every release.

Well, it's either that or non-customizable ships. There is no way to predict every interaction unless we get down to a release schedule so slow that everyone quits out of boredom.