Man, in 1 month kylo and 2 boats went from looking really strong, but fell like a stone from a bridge off the competitive map.

On one hand it's interesting seeing things get countered quickly. But on the other. ...well....the "looking for new list blues" is a drag.

Point is..the world is going by fast these days.

Yeah, there is nothing new attached to an 80 degree arc that can truly supplant the previous OP turret stuff that avoided the nerf bat; cream always rises to the top no matter the tea.

Honestly I think the Kylocepter needed 4 attack to stay relevant (which is crazy). We've hit such a hyper-damage point in x-wing that a 3 attack 40+ point ship just cant dish out enough hurt in 75 minutes to win. The insane amount of damage reduction (reinforce, regen, and just huge HP pools/tankiness) has gotten WAY out of control. You need to consistently be throwing 12-16 dice out in the first couple of turns to deal with things like Kanan/Fenn or Wookies or 4-ship or Nymranda. There's just too many tanky rebels to chew through. If fragile ships ever make a comeback (which they won't, because lolSabine bombs) Kylo would be a beast.

What we need are counter to stupid high health turrets.

And the sheathipede is a broken overpowered mistake. Really, 22 Points for PS11 Coordinate + Regen Chopper?

Kylo Gunboats was never GOOD. It was fun and acceptable. That's all.

Don't kid yourself. Nobody said Kylo was good. He was just fun to play.

We knew it didn't hold up at all to Nym Miranda or Ghosts or dengar.

Kylo was never going be a thing.

2 hours ago, Velvetelvis said:

Man, in 1 month kylo and 2 boats went from looking really strong, but fell like a stone from a bridge off the competitive map.

On one hand it's interesting seeing things get countered quickly. But on the other. ...well....the "looking for new list blues" is a drag.

Point is..the world is going by fast these days.

We just haven't tried hard enough yet.

The Meta seems to involve being able to tank at least three fully modded four Dice shots (or four three Dice shots) without blinking.

i got nothing,

This is why I use the original Kylo.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

We just haven't tried hard enough yet.

When you try to polish a turd you often just wind up covered in you know what.

3 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

When you try to polish a turd you often just wind up covered in you know what.

X-wing 2.0 kids

FFG just wants to insure classic Star Wars ships with 80 degree arcs don’t show up at major event finals....for some unknown reason; facts don’t lie.

Was commonwealth defenders the last time small bases with arcs were meaningful?

I' trying to put a' time of death' note in my x wing file for the coroner's report.

Not really. We had Mindlink lists like Old Man Rau and technical Nu QD as well.

6 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

Was commonwealth defenders the last time small bases with arcs were meaningful?

I' trying to put a' time of death' note in my x wing file for the coroner's report.

I introduce people to this amazing game, and they all want so badly to fly X-Wings, TIE Fighters, A-Wings, TIE Advanced, Interceptors, B-Wings, and they have so much fun...they go to the LGS and ask “what is that ship?” Most quickly become disinterested. Casual people walk around and have to ask what the game is; when told they’re puzzled and just don’t believe you. Most I’ve introduced get uninterested due to the lack of iconic ships; few playnow and then in home games; most just move on to other games. It’s sad the core/heart of this game is almost dead.......

13 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

Was commonwealth defenders the last time small bases with arcs were meaningful?

I' trying to put a' time of death' note in my x wing file for the coroner's report.

not according to the System Open in Austin all of one month ago!

51 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

Was commonwealth defenders the last time small bases with arcs were meaningful?

I' trying to put a' time of death' note in my x wing file for the coroner's report.

I think alot of people arent very good with Vader/Quickdraw or Inqy/Quickdraw plus a third ship of their choosing despite its potential. Same goes for a couple variations of Fenn, M12s, Guri, and Talonbane etc. which I think are under represented simply because people havent figured out cybernetics yet and its not parattani or assaj/ketsu.

Those 3 ship small base arc type of lists are alot stronger than many players realize and they almost certainly are the most fun to play. Tough as they might be to push into the top 4 they make it out of swiss pretty consistently. Though I guess its worth admitting getting through Swiss isnt all that hard. Its Top 8 forward where the meta really seems to become relevant and surpress small base arcs.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

I introduce people to this amazing game, and they all want so badly to fly X-Wings, TIE Fighters, A-Wings, TIE Advanced, Interceptors, B-Wings, and they have so much fun...they go to the LGS and ask “what is that ship?” Most quickly become disinterested. Casual people walk around and have to ask what the game is; when told they’re puzzled and just don’t believe you. Most I’ve introduced get uninterested due to the lack of iconic ships; few playnow and then in home games; most just move on to other games. It’s sad the core/heart of this game is almost dead.......

Soooo...

why did FFG make the conscious decision that SWG and Rebels ships aught to be more effective and flown more often that the OT/ST stuff? Oh, you don’t think that was a conscious decision? Look at the Scurrg, it appeared in one N64 game 20 years ago and now it demands far too much attention during list building and in actual play. Why? Well, because the design team wanted it to be that way. Just like a random bounty hunter ship became the ‘scourge’ of the meta, forcing everyone to account for it or fly it. The creativity that opens up new types of play and the seeming lack of imagination to predict how problematic those play styles will be, just doesn’t like they should be mutually exclusive.

So I have to conclude that The designers purposefully create OP ships to warp official game play. Otherwise we reach the illogical conclusion that FFG is bad at designing relatively balanced game expansions and have no idea what’s going to happen after each wave drops. Maybe it plays into the marketing of the game, get someone hooked into casual with OT ships and then make them buy into ugly scummie ships no one remembers to break into the competition scene, get the OT and EU money from every new player. But...that’s just paranoid, right?

23 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

But...that’s just paranoid, right?

Nope. The devs are completely asleep at the wheel. Mostly because they spend an absolute minimum of hours on X-Wing. They're being pulled in too many directions with other games. So bascially for X-Wing they just throw a bunch of poorly tested, rushed products out and hope that things work out. If they don't they'll do emergency nerfs, but they often miss the mark, nerfing upgrades instead of OP chassis.

I'm actually starting to feel bad for the devs. They are obviously not supported fully by management and are having to try and shoestring X-Wing along without proper support and playtesting.

29 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Otherwise we reach the illogical both logical AND probable conclusion that FFG is bad at designing relatively balanced game expansions and have no idea what’s going to happen after each wave drops. Maybe it plays into the marketing of the game, get someone hooked into casual with OT ships and then make them buy into ugly scummie ships no one remembers to break into the competition scene, get the OT and EU money from every new player. But...that’s just paranoid, right?

und fixed

FFG hasn't really "known" what it was doing since Wave 0 released and saw the more maneuverable TIE fighter being mathematically superior (for the points) than the clunkier X-wing

and we know from experience with the TIE Phantom just how hard they go about trying to fix a meta problem after several doomed-to-fail attempts

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Don't kid yourself. Nobody said Kylo was good. He was just fun to play.

I said he was good.

?

5 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

When you try to polish a turd you often just wind up covered in you know what.

Polish?

3 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Soooo...

why did FFG make the conscious decision that SWG and Rebels ships aught to be more effective and flown more often that the OT/ST stuff? Oh, you don’t think that was a conscious decision? Look at the Scurrg, it appeared in one N64 game 20 years ago and now it demands far too much attention during list building and in actual play. Why? Well, because the design team wanted it to be that way. Just like a random bounty hunter ship became the ‘scourge’ of the meta, forcing everyone to account for it or fly it. The creativity that opens up new types of play and the seeming lack of imagination to predict how problematic those play styles will be, just doesn’t like they should be mutually exclusive.

So I have to conclude that The designers purposefully create OP ships to warp official game play. Otherwise we reach the illogical conclusion that FFG is bad at designing relatively balanced game expansions and have no idea what’s going to happen after each wave drops. Maybe it plays into the marketing of the game, get someone hooked into casual with OT ships and then make them buy into ugly scummie ships no one remembers to break into the competition scene, get the OT and EU money from every new player. But...that’s just paranoid, right?

Counter point: the scurrg has terrible lore, and FFG made it true to the lore.

Seriously look up the wiki entry on the scurrg. It’s a highly modified custom bomber that’s a relic from the clone wars but still packs a bunch because it’s been modified like crazy by ace pilot/pirate captain Nym.

3 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Nope. The devs are completely asleep at the wheel. Mostly because they spend an absolute minimum of hours on X-Wing. They're being pulled in too many directions with other games. So bascially for X-Wing they just throw a bunch of poorly tested, rushed products out and hope that things work out. If they don't they'll do emergency nerfs, but they often miss the mark, nerfing upgrades instead of OP chassis.

I'm actually starting to feel bad for the devs. They are obviously not supported fully by management and are having to try and shoestring X-Wing along without proper support and playtesting.

Throw on top Disney wanting to proof read every FAQ change and (I’m guessing) asmodee likes to keep an eye on things and it sort of starts to make more sense.

3 hours ago, Ailowynn said:

I said he was good.

?

Well okay. You did then.

What do you think now?