10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Mk.II Engines are nice, but only really necessary with Expertise or Push the Limit, in my mind. They're entirely optional on most builds. It's great to have more options to clear stress, but clearing stress is only vital in some lists.

I wanted to highlight this because I think it's entirely untrue - TIE MkII is *essential* when the only other green moves the Defender has are straight lines. There's enough stress control still present in the game that being locked into going straight or losing essential actions (including the X/7 Evade) is not an option - that's not to mention being able to actually use more of the dial.
There's nothing better competing for the Modification slot, and it's a single point. It should be stapled to every Defender without question, as it just makes it so more flexible and viable outside of K-Turning constantly (which everyone expects).

MkII's are the only reason I'd buy the Punisher, which I'll grab when it's back in stock with BD as then it's only gonna cost me 12 bucks a card other than 30!

10 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

I wanted to highlight this because I think it's entirely untrue - TIE MkII is *essential* when the only other green moves the Defender has are straight lines. There's enough stress control still present in the game that being locked into going straight or losing essential actions (including the X/7 Evade) is not an option - that's not to mention being able to actually use more of the dial.
There's nothing better competing for the Modification slot, and it's a single point. It should be stapled to every Defender without question, as it just makes it so more flexible and viable outside of K-Turning constantly (which everyone expects).

No doubt it's the best Modification for a TIE Defender.

But it's not like they're unplayable without it.

This isn't Push the Limit for Soontir, where he's essentially useless without it. The most successful Defender lists skipped it on most builds (On PTL Ryad, but not on Vess in the Commonwealth Defenders, not on Vess or Delta in the named-pilot trip-/x7 lists, not on Crack Glaives), not because it isn't good, but because the points couldn't be found for it, and because--while it's very good, the best Mod for any Defender--they are still pretty reasonable without them. Now, both the TIE Defender lists I'm flying these days run TIE Mk.IIs. But I think I've only used them once or twice in the past 10 games or so , because if you don't fly against stress control, it's pretty common to never take a point of stress in the entire game, due to the convenience of all the white on the dial. Some of that is going to be the local meta. If where you play personally you can't get by without them? Well, then they'll really live up to their potential. But not everyone plays in that same metagame.

And the big thing what @SwordOwaR was saying: not everyone has a TIE Punisher. If the upgrade were more readily available, that'd be one thing. But it isn't. Mk.IIs are in a bad ship (one which I still think is fun, though!), with little else in the expansion to recommend it. To Proxy them or borrow them for events is a totally plausible thing . I should have said that above: In casual, no one cares if you proxy them. At tournaments, there are often people who bring all their cards and could loan you some for the event. Well, at least in my meta.

Anyhow, I guess what I mean is this: there are ships and pilots out there that without certain upgrades are never worth playing at all. Mostly, these are fix cards and titles, but some are other kinds of upgrades. That's the essential tier to me. Next, there are those upgrades which, while they're best-in-slot, and very good, and you should take them if you can, aren't so important that you shouldn't fly Ship A unless you buy Expansion B in order for the one upgrade. That's where I put TIE Mk.IIs for Defenders without PTL or Expertise. You can put a Defender on a table and play a reasonable game most of the time without it.

I'll echo that I think TIE Mk IIs are unnecessary. It's great to have, but it really depends on your local meta. I rarely use it, and I think it's only been a problem once for me. (when running a TIE/D Pod Challenge list) The Countess really doesn't need one, as she can usually make a straight work out with her ability. It likely is the best mod for a Defender, but only if you have the points available. I rarely do, so I rarely use it.

For EPTs besides Expertise: I've used Predator and Crackshot with some success, just got to remember to use them.

Expertise seems to be the best, so I recommend picking up copies of the card if you can. Its what's taken my list from "pretty good" to people calling it broken.

Test (98)

•Colonel Vessery (40) - TIE Defender
Expertise (4), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

•Countess Ryad (37) - TIE Defender
TIE/D (0), Ion Cannon (3)

Omicron Group Pilot (21) - Lambda-Class Shuttle
Collision Detector (0)

What would be the best way to spend the last 2 points?

TIE Mk.II on Vessery. I consider it essential when using Expertise or PTL or any other upgrade which has a stress interaction. Then Crack Shot on Ryad.

Alternately, don't take Expertise on Vessery, and PTL/TIE Mk.II on Ryad, and then there'd be 2 more points. Crack Shot on Vessery, and Intelligence Agent on the Shuttle. Either PTL/Mk.II on Ryad and something like Crack Shot on Vessery, or Expertise/Mk.II on Vessery and Crack Shot on Ryad seem like great choices. I kinda think I want PTL/Ryad more. Vessery is going to be an obvious first target in the list with his double-mods, so perhaps lower his individual threat level, and make Ryad scarier. Plus, PTL helps Vess too, since it gets the TL he needs, while still allowing Ryad to take a Focus she desperately wants. A Score to Settle is also OK on Vessery, since it gets him focus-type mods on the cheap.

Personally, I don't really get why the shuttle is there. I guess its got a lot of HP and 3 red dice, but I think I'd rather have something like Countdown which can move better. Or an Alpha Class with some kind of missile or torpedo (which one is best, I have no idea ). Or a nearly-naked TIE/SF. I personally don't want to be burdened by that Lambda dial unless I'm getting something I really want out of the ship.

1 hour ago, s1ickrick said:

Test (98)

•Colonel Vessery (40) - TIE Defender
Expertise (4), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

•Countess Ryad (37) - TIE Defender
TIE/D (0), Ion Cannon (3)

Omicron Group Pilot (21) - Lambda-Class Shuttle
Collision Detector (0)

What would be the best way to spend the last 2 points?

Systems officer, or TIE Mk II for Vessery, and Crackshot for Ryad.

Or some of the suggestions theBitterFig mentioned.

Think I may have to play the proxy game.

16 minutes ago, SwordOwaR said:

Think I may have to play the proxy game.

No shame in it.

1 hour ago, SwordOwaR said:

Think I may have to play the proxy game.

If you’re not in an official FFG tournament, have at it.

This is definitely an archetype that is gaining some traction. Just glanced at the Polish Systems Open on listjuggler and in the hyperspace a double TIE D list did well. Here’s my offering;

Maarek, ASTS, Tractor, MKII @ 37

Ryad, PTL, Ion, MKII @ 41

Pure Sabacc, Adaptability, AA

I will sell Sabacc as the plus one as a major distraction. I try to bring him in late to hit tractored or ionised ships. The Striker is a joy to fly and if ignored will punch holes in things. If targeted, your Defenders are free to go to work.

I’ve waxed lyrical about ASTS on Maarek elsewhere on the forum but it’s insanely good. I have been able to repeatedly trigger his ability and it’s horrid when in play.

Thanks for creating a interesting theory crafting thread!

Maarek is interesting to me, in that he's not Vessery. Vess gets full TLs. I know Maarek has the interesting crit effect (made better by having lower agility), but like, two free target locks per turn. Hrm. May have to try it sometime.

Anyhow, thanks for joining in, @Smudger13

Yeah the TL bonus is great with Vess. But, if you lock down one ship with a score to settle on Maarek he’s modding both shots, and easily getting the crit to use his ability.

For 0 pts it’s great fun, with clear drawbacks. I’m going to fly this list in a small tournament on Sunday - will report back!

I mean, Vess gets rerolls and the ASTS crit for two kinds of offensive modification. But those tasty search-crits... mmmm.

More play experience:

Tried a modified version of Howlrunner tonight (no EPT for Howlrunner, spent the two points on TIE Mk II instead). Won the first game, but lost the second. My opponent for the first game fielded his own TIE/Ds, and so Howlrunner folded rather quickly to their fire. In the second game, she lasted a tad bit longer, but not by much. Her ability came in handy a few games, but it's usually minor.

I'll be playing at the Omaha Regionals this weekend, and I think I'm going to go with the TIE Shuttle version of the list, likely dropping the Intell Agent in favor of TIE Mk. II for Vessery, in case someone is running a Stress bot.

Well I went with:

Marek, Predator, Tractor beam, TIE/D.

Countess, VI, Tractor beam, TIE/D.

Turr Phennir.

Using the Defenders to focus on a single target hitting it with two tractor beams and primary fire then having Turr attack them while their agility is still down.

Only played one game against Scum Fenn Rau, Tweek and TLT Y-wing, using various bonuses.
Took out Fenn and Tweek, before losing the Countess to the TLT Y-wing, in fact the TLT took out all my ships in the end, he had 4 hull left.
My ships were all PS7, his were PS9 (?) Fenn, PS4 Tweek and PS7 Y-wing, he had the initiative.