Howdy folks. Been playing a few variants of a TIE/D-TIE/D-Gunboat list, and while I'm sold on the TIE/D title with tractor beams and ion cannons, I'm still not sold on the Gunboat as the third ship. Gunboats are great, but I don't really have the points or upgrades to build them into their full potential.

Ideally, my two Defenders would look something like this:

Willing to swap out Vessery for a Glaive to gain the extra point, and/or drop Expertise off of Countess. That gives me somewhere between 19-24 points to play with. What to fill it with? Debating between these options:

TIE Striker w/Lightweight frame and adaptive ailerons. 20pts

Scimitar Bomber w/TIE Shuttle, Intell Agent, and Systems officer. 19pts

Nu Squadron Pilot w/XG-1, Ion Cannons (I don't have flechette), and Linked Battery 24pts

What say you, oh exalted users of the interwebs?

THREE TIE/Ds! I've been loving Rainbow Deltas, all with Twin Ion Engine Mk.II for green banks, and one each Tractor, Ion, and Flechette. (doesn't Flechette come in the Gunboat/Alpha Class expansion? Anyhow, I know some folks trade cards)

However, for the main list: I think I might go with Pure Sabacc. 22 points naked, 23 with Crack Shot, 24 with Trick Shot/LWF, 25 with Crack Shot/LWF. I'd consider Adaptability on Countess, or Trick Shot (the potential to trigger twice is nice...). If you want more points still, dropping Colonel Vessery to A Score to Settle is like a weaker Expertise--not nearly as good, but free. Crack Shot Pure Sabacc fits with Expertise Vess/Adapt Ryad, but only without LWF. Getting rid of Expertise off Vess means you'll have 2 points to fill, which could be TIE Mk.IIs for the defenders. Either way seems good to me. In general, I like the thought of Pure Sabacc with high-threat ships like TIE/D Defenders. With TIE/x7 Defenders, it's not a hard puzzle: just blow away Sabacc. However, against TIE/D, the damage output is potentially huge, so they pair better since they're closer in threat levels, and they're not so tanky you wouldn't want to bother attacking them. 3-greens and 6 HP is still very good, but an opponent might be tempted to attack there first (particularly with A Score to Settle).

If keeping Expertise, I think I'd really try to get TIE Mk.IIs in there. Defender greens are weak, but getting those banks in is great. Otherwise, I think you'll be too vulnerable to stress mechanics. This would leave 17 points, which I'd spend on an Advanced Optics Epsilon TIE/FO.

Another cheap ship to fill in is Omega Leader with just A Score to Settle at 21 points. She'll do OK damage against the enemy with A Debt to Pay (about the same as Juke, if you save your focus for Defense), and will prime the target lock pump for Vessery. For Countess here, Crack Shot seems like a really cool upgrade. Being able to get a clutch crack on an Ion Cannon seems huge. I know there was a regional-winning Scum mixed-swarm which ran Inaldra with an Ion Cannon and Crack Shot. Expertise/Tractor/TIE.Mk.II on Vess, Crack Shot/Ion on Ryad, ASTS Omega Leader should be 100 total.

I am looking at this:

Rho Squad OS-1, PtL, Ion Pulse Missile and guidance chips for 29 points.

That leaves enough for Vessery and Ryad each with tractor beam.

I worry that the Defenders won't have much to help with offense but with the prevalence of 1 agility ships tractor beam should still be super effective. follow that up with the ion pulse missiles at a large base ship they'll think twice about using glitterstim and the gunboat will be able to reload and target lock assuming green moves have space to work.

11 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

THREE TIE/Ds! I've been loving Rainbow Deltas, all with Twin Ion Engine Mk.II for green banks, and one each Tractor, Ion, and Flechette. (doesn't Flechette come in the Gunboat/Alpha Class expansion? Anyhow, I know some folks trade cards)

However, for the main list: I think I might go with Pure Sabacc. 22 points naked, 23 with Crack Shot, 24 with Trick Shot/LWF, 25 with Crack Shot/LWF. I'd consider Adaptability on Countess, or Trick Shot (the potential to trigger twice is nice...). If you want more points still, dropping Colonel Vessery to A Score to Settle is like a weaker Expertise--not nearly as good, but free. Crack Shot Pure Sabacc fits with Expertise Vess/Adapt Ryad, but only without LWF. Getting rid of Expertise off Vess means you'll have 2 points to fill, which could be TIE Mk.IIs for the defenders. Either way seems good to me. In general, I like the thought of Pure Sabacc with high-threat ships like TIE/D Defenders. With TIE/x7 Defenders, it's not a hard puzzle: just blow away Sabacc. However, against TIE/D, the damage output is potentially huge, so they pair better since they're closer in threat levels, and they're not so tanky you wouldn't want to bother attacking them. 3-greens and 6 HP is still very good, but an opponent might be tempted to attack there first (particularly with A Score to Settle).

If keeping Expertise, I think I'd really try to get TIE Mk.IIs in there. Defender greens are weak, but getting those banks in is great. Otherwise, I think you'll be too vulnerable to stress mechanics. This would leave 17 points, which I'd spend on an Advanced Optics Epsilon TIE/FO.

Another cheap ship to fill in is Omega Leader with just A Score to Settle at 21 points. She'll do OK damage against the enemy with A Debt to Pay (about the same as Juke, if you save your focus for Defense), and will prime the target lock pump for Vessery. For Countess here, Crack Shot seems like a really cool upgrade. Being able to get a clutch crack on an Ion Cannon seems huge. I know there was a regional-winning Scum mixed-swarm which ran Inaldra with an Ion Cannon and Crack Shot. Expertise/Tractor/TIE.Mk.II on Vess, Crack Shot/Ion on Ryad, ASTS Omega Leader should be 100 total.

1

Unfortunately, much like Flechette cannons, I don't have much of what you're recommending. Flechette cannon only comes in the Scyk Interceptor pack, and I don't really play scum, nor do I have any First Order TIEs. I could go with Crackshot on the Countess to free up a few points and go with Pure Sabaac. Down side of that is that I'll be losing Ryad's Expertise, which was one of the big goals of this build, leave focus tokens for defense, and/or try to get target locks for rerolls. I'm not too terribly worried about stress, as I've found with Ryad's ability it's not terribly hard to clear, even without Mk. II TIE.

3 hours ago, DarthMuz said:

I am looking at this:

Rho Squad OS-1, PtL, Ion Pulse Missile and guidance chips for 29 points.

That leaves enough for Vessery and Ryad each with tractor beam.

I worry that the Defenders won't have much to help with offense but with the prevalence of 1 agility ships tractor beam should still be super effective. follow that up with the ion pulse missiles at a large base ship they'll think twice about using glitterstim and the gunboat will be able to reload and target lock assuming green moves have space to work.

I started with a similar list a while back. I've had virtually no luck with ordnance, and so moved to a more cannon build for the Gunboat.

There's a local tournament today, and I think I've settled on this list. I don't have much in the way of experience with the Striker, so I decided to drop the Ailerons until I have more experience with it.

Tournament today went 2/2. Tabled my opponents on both wins, was down to a single ship on both losses. The Expertise-TIE/D combo was highly effective, as it allowed me to save focuses for defense or barrel rolls for repositioning. Not to be "that guy" but both losses were largely due to the damage cards I drew. Drew a Direct Hit after ion-ing the Falcon down to a single hull point (with an asteroid directly in front of it), and ended up with Injured pilots on both Defenders during the second loss. I'm still not sold on the Striker as the third member of the squad, but the two TIE/Ds and Expertise are amazing.

SO I also love Defenders. That Vessery build is perfect.

To save a few points, I would use PTL Ryad w/TIE Mk. II and Tractor Beam. A little more versatile. However, you could still use Expertise rather than PTL/Mk. II, that's a style difference - but I would downgrade to Tractoring for sure.

That leaves room for someone small like Epsilon Ace, a named TIE, etc etc

Just a thought, but you could go...

2 Glaive Squad Pilots, predator, tractor beam, Tie/D with a Nu Squad Pilot, OS-1, Harpoon Missile, Long range scanner.

Possible mods are to downgrade missile to Ion Pulse Missile and promote one Glaive to Col Vessery.

Never use a striker again without ailerons.

1 hour ago, Woobyluv said:

Just a thought, but you could go...

2 Glaive Squad Pilots, predator, tractor beam, Tie/D with a Nu Squad Pilot, OS-1, Harpoon Missile, Long range scanner.

Possible mods are to downgrade missile to Ion Pulse Missile and promote one Glaive to Col Vessery.

I tried something very similar when this list started, and didn't care for it. I've had very little luck with ordnance, as already stated, which is why I moved away from it.

38 minutes ago, thebrettski said:

Never use a striker again without ailerons.

First time I had ever used it, didn't want an extra bit of weirdness. Not sure it would have helped all that much, honestly. It gives a little boost, but forces you to play two moves ahead. Not a big bonus in my opinion.

The thing is, strikers with ailerons are among the fastest, most maneuverable ships in the game. Without ailerons, they're among the slowest.

If you're looking for a 20 pt ship to match with two TIE/D Defenders, try a Bomber with TIE Shuttle, Fleet Officer, and Intel Agent.

4 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

The thing is, strikers with ailerons are among the fastest, most maneuverable ships in the game. Without ailerons, they're among the slowest.

If you're looking for a 20 pt ship to match with two TIE/D Defenders, try a Bomber with TIE Shuttle, Fleet Officer, and Intel Agent.

Something very similar was one of the options I listed in my initial post.

And I found the Striker to be quite maneuverable, without the problems of planning multiple steps ahead or needing to fly at what amounts to speed 3 at all times.

I love running this squad but find the bomber is pretty under whelming.

•Colonel Vessery (40) - TIE Defender
Expertise (4), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

•Countess Ryad (40) - TIE Defender
Push The Limit (3), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (20) - TIE Bomber
Unguided Rockets (2), Lightweight Frame (2)

Any thoughts on this shake up?

Glaive Squadron Pilot (39) - TIE Defender
Expertise (4), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

•Countess Ryad (40) - TIE Defender
Push The Limit (3), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0)

Omicron Group Pilot (21) - Lambda-Class Shuttle
Collision Detector (0), Courier Droid (0)

I generally see courier Droid as completely worthless. For 21 points, I think you could get more bang for your buck out of a TIE Shuttle, unless you're just hoping to use the Shuttle as a big, fat juicy target that spews three red die.

This looks pretty good, but still see bomber not performing well.

•Colonel Vessery (40) - TIE Defender
Expertise (4), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

•Countess Ryad (41) - TIE Defender
Push The Limit (3), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (19) - TIE Bomber
TIE Shuttle (0), Fleet Officer (3)

Any 19 point ship that would do better?

a microphone ?

On 2/10/2018 at 7:40 PM, DarthMuz said:

I am looking at this:

Rho Squad OS-1, PtL, Ion Pulse Missile and guidance chips for 29 points.

That leaves enough for Vessery and Ryad each with tractor beam.

I worry that the Defenders won't have much to help with offense but with the prevalence of 1 agility ships tractor beam should still be super effective. follow that up with the ion pulse missiles at a large base ship they'll think twice about using glitterstim and the gunboat will be able to reload and target lock assuming green moves have space to work.

On 2/10/2018 at 9:40 PM, Alpha17 said:

Unfortunately, much like Flechette cannons, I don't have much of what you're recommending. Flechette cannon only comes in the Scyk Interceptor pack, and I don't really play scum, nor do I have any First Order TIEs. I could go with Crackshot on the Countess to free up a few points and go with Pure Sabaac. Down side of that is that I'll be losing Ryad's Expertise, which was one of the big goals of this build, leave focus tokens for defense, and/or try to get target locks for rerolls. I'm not too terribly worried about stress, as I've found with Ryad's ability it's not terribly hard to clear, even without Mk. II TIE.

I started with a similar list a while back. I've had virtually no luck with ordnance, and so moved to a more cannon build for the Gunboat.

So I won the single game I played with this list (vs Poe-Tycho-stress Y-Wing) but didn't shoot off any ion pulse missiles. The gunboat did finish off Poe with a range one primary shot tho.

If you are still considering a TIE Bomber Shuttle, I had good success with Jonus and Fleet Officer+Systems Officer. Take 2 Glaives and all are PS 6 making keeping range for the abilities much easier and can still get modifications to the Defenders if they are having trouble shaking off stress (as long as Jonus sheds his with TIE MkII of course).

What about Howlrunner with a cheap upgrade or two? She'll be an early target, but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.

4 minutes ago, direweasel said:

What about Howlrunner with a cheap upgrade or two? She'll be an early target, but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.

Not a terrible idea. Less punch than the Striker, but her ability, assuming she survives the initial joust, could help the other two get in a bit more damage. And yeah, if she bites it early, she still soaked up a round of fire meant for fighters that actually matter.

Yeah, as you say, it's not about her punch as such - it's about making the two defenders better, as long as she's alive.

Tried my first game with Howlrunner. Her ability was relatively minimal, as she was either out of range or I simply didn't need to reroll all that many die with the Defenders' primary weapons. What really came in handy was I gave her Decoy, and swapped her PS with either the Countess or a Glaive, bumping them up in the firing order. Used that effectively to hit my opponent before he could respond. Not completely sold on Howlrunner, but she's definitely worth some more consideration and experimentation.

Took a list of Vessery, the Countess, and a TIE Shuttle to a local hanger bay tournament today. Only used it in the last two rounds, but it wiped the floor with the opposition. Tabled both opponents, without losing a ship. While neither list was particularly strong or expertly played, (first was a Dash-Poe list that folded as soon as I opened fire on it, the second was a Vader/Fel/Jax list), I think this version also shows promises.

That leaves me with three relatively successful versions, with the TIE Shuttle and Howlrunner varients showing the most promise. Expertise was awesome to have, to the point where I was told it was broken during the last game. Don't think I want to leave home without it.

I played a game yesterday with Vess (Expertise, TIE/D, TIE Mk.II, Tractor Beam), Ryad (Expertise, TIE/D, TIE Mk.II, Ion Cannon), Epsilon Squadron Pilot (Advanced Optics). It went well, only losing Vessery against a bomb list my opponent had just built with a B/SF, a ship he'd never flown. That's a bunch of caveats.

Still, there's something kinda bonkers in the way that Vessery can bump or get blocked, and still have full rerolls and focus tokens if you've set things up properly.

Epsilon F/O with Advanced Optics feels nice. Gotta find a way to put more of these on a table.

I'm trying to come up with a good list for two Tie D's, I see a lot with Juke, MKII engines, Expertise, etc. though I don't have these cards.

Any good ideas that don't use them? I have the Vets and standard tie D pack

Juke is more of an /x7 thing.

Mk.II Engines are nice, but only really necessary with Expertise or Push the Limit, in my mind. They're entirely optional on most builds. It's great to have more options to clear stress, but clearing stress is only vital in some lists.

From the TIE Defender pack, Predator would be solid on anyone except Colonel Vessery. Since you attack twice, it does double-duty, much like Expertise.

Crack Shot is also great. It's front-loaded damage, and it can be used to ensure a cannon attack hits, which is potentially wicked strong. Being able to ensure an Ion at the right time can be huge. Crack Shot to make sure Soontir (Soontir Fel in 2018?) or The Inquisitor is Ion/Stressed next turn? Yeah, that's probably going to win the game right there. It's even potentially worth it with a Tractor Beam shot. Strand someone on a rock, potentially deny them actions next turn (if they have to fly over a rock again), and potentially shots this turn (if your PS is higher)? Oh, and their agility is reduced, which is almost Crack-Shotting every other attack this round? Yeah, that can be worth it. Additionally, the threat of Crack Shot can force an opponent to spend their tokens sub-optimally. For instance, if someone like the Inquisitor is staring down 3 hits and a Crack Shot, even if they get 3 evades, they'll need to spend an evade token to prevent being cracked. This makes it easier for the next shots to land.

I don't hate Outmaneuver on Colonel Vessery, but only really if you have a good source of target locks elsewhere in the list. On anyone else, Predator is probably just better than Outmaneuver. It would also be one of the first things I'd trim for points in the list, dropping it to a cheaper Elite upgrade.

From other expansions, Trick Shot is pretty nifty, since if it triggers, it triggers on both attacks. Likewise A Score to Settle on Vessery in particular (he'll have focus and reroll mods on both attacks). Adaptability can make Countess and Vessery the same PS, which is nice, but not super important. Lone Wolf might not be too bad, either. I think that'd lend itself more to single TIE/D builds, however, where you're less interested in setting up a killbox* on an opponent.

It's also not too bad to bring generics. Keeping in mind the tokens you'd have in just those two sets, taking an Onyx Squadron Pilot with Tractor Beam and a Delta Squadron Pilot with Ion Cannon could work. They cost 33 points each, leaving 34 points for other PS 1-3 ships to take advantage of the potential reduced agility.

//

* A note on flying: at least in my experience, I think I want to fan out TIE/D more than fly them in formation. Keep them spread out, then collapse on a target, ideally setting up a box where all your ships have their firing arcs converge. I think it makes them less predictable than flying in formation, and I think it allows me greater freedom of movement. Defenders have a really cool dial, but in some ways it's kind of skewed. They only have one realistic hard turn, and their 4-K is kinda predictable. I think being spread out counteracts some of that.