https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/2/9/commanders-orders/

Really feeling better about Lord Vader now compared to where I was. Full second activation in a round, or suppressing the enemies out of actions nearby? Yes please.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

Really feeling better about Lord Vader now compared to where I was. Full second activation in a round, or suppressing the enemies out of actions nearby? Yes please.

his mobility is still going to make him a lot harder to use than luke, but he really is a powerhouse of area denial........

Don’t forget he has the ability to move twice. You really have to give him a wide berth. Which is very thematic

15 minutes ago, DelGriffen said:

Don’t forget he has the ability to move twice. You really have to give him a wide berth. Which is very thematic

Yeah but luke can move almost that far with an action spare, and he still has ranged attack options.....

I'm not saying vader is bad ( he deserves his cost and will be a beast), but he will take a lot more planning and thought before you place his movement template if you want to win games.

7 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Yeah but luke can move almost that far with an action spare, and he still has ranged attack options.....

I'm not saying vader is bad ( he deserves his cost and will be a beast), but he will take a lot more planning and thought before you place his movement template if you want to win games.

I honestly don’t think he will. He’s so easy to get value from even without ever making an attack, because he can just stroll to an objective, keeping his unbreakable bubble of troops around him on the way (they can split off as needed to go after other objectives) and sit there.

If the enemy want s that objective, they have to face him and his insane killing power and brutal suppression ability. Otherwise it’s free victory points for the Empire effectively.

Bugger chasing stuff, just stick him where the enemy wants (or needs) to go.

3 minutes ago, Extropia said:

I honestly don’t think he will. He’s so easy to get value from even without ever making an attack, because he can just stroll to an objective, keeping his unbreakable bubble of troops around him on the way (they can split off as needed to go after other objectives) and sit there.

If the enemy want s that objective, they have to face him and his insane killing power and brutal suppression ability. Otherwise it’s free victory points for the Empire effectively.

Bugger chasing stuff, just stick him where the enemy wants (or needs) to go.

All missions except breakthrough have at least 3 objectives. Sitting on 1 isn't gg, and you open yourself up to sniping hitters( leia's 1 pip command card or atrt laser/rotary cannons)

You don’t sit on one, you sit between 2. In intercept he can reach either of them in one turn, and in supplies it should be easy too.

Meanwhile most of the rest of his army can go after another. Ultimately you don’t need to hold the, all, 2 will win you the game easily, and again....people will simply have to deal with him.

Except Breakthrough. If I was running Vader that would definitely never see the table....

Hes also honestly quite hard to snipe. Leias card is 1 use only, and with his defence surge and dodge (and if people refuse to close with his zone of control, he will have dodge), he’ll take on average 1 damage from 3 laser cannon AT-RTs. Bit more if they aim, but they’ll actually be taking mode back in tpreturn from deflect amusingly, and they cost more than him.

Hes not in any way OP, but he will be VERY easy to get plenty of value from.

3 minutes ago, Extropia said:

You don’t sit on one, you sit between 2. In intercept he can reach either of them in one turn, and in supplies it should be easy too.

Meanwhile most of the rest of his army can go after another. Ultimately you don’t need to hold the, all, 2 will win you the game easily, and again....people will simply have to deal with him.

Except Breakthrough. If I was running Vader that would definitely never see the table....

Problem with that idea is with vader there is unless it's imp/imp you're already out numbered by paying for him. Sitting between 2 doesn't get you victory points with the possible exception of intercept and you ignored the point i made on sniping units.

7 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Problem with that idea is with vader there is unless it's imp/imp you're already out numbered by paying for him. Sitting between 2 doesn't get you victory points with the possible exception of intercept and you ignored the point i made on sniping units.

Sorry, sniping bit was added after. He doesn’t really die to them.

And th point is that if the enemy wants those points, he has to come into Vader’s range. If he doesn’t....well, put Stormies in there and rake in the score.

I guess we’ll have to wait and see who’s closer on this one!

He will be interesting to deal with. I wonder if there are any rules for commanders to join units so they can't be singled out. For the concentrated firepower of say 2 AT-ST's can probably bring down even Vader in at most 2 turns (total of 12 red, 12 black and 12 white dice).

No way to join units as far as we know.

2 AT-STs with twin blasters could do a number on most things, but to be fair that’s more than 400pts so it seems fair!

Just for curiosity sake, 2 blaster AT-STs without aiming (because I’m lazy) does this against a dodging Vader:

Turn 1;

AT #1 shoots, averages 5.5 hits. Vader reduces that to 1.8 with his defence, then 0.8 with dodge. AT#1 takes 1 deflect damage.

AT# 2 shoots, 5.5 hits, Vader’s defence reduces it to 2.75 (no dodge or surge from deflect this time).

Total damage per turn: 3.5 to Vader, 1 to the AT-STs.

Its that red defence die with a defence surge, it’s freaking nuts. 2 aiming STs with extra blasters WILL drop him in 2 turns though on average....at the cost of 430pts dedicated to shooting him for 1/2 to 2/3 of a game.

So, until more commanders are available and you put 2 in your army, there isn't any choice of your 7 command cards? Its always going to be the 4 neutrals and 3 commander cards.

I like the sound of the command system but would have liked a greater choice of cards - I wonder if 2 commanders will be the preferred choice for most people?

2 hours ago, Extropia said:

You don’t sit on one, you sit between 2. In intercept he can reach either of them in one turn, and in supplies it should be easy too.

Meanwhile most of the rest of his army can go after another. Ultimately you don’t need to hold the, all, 2 will win you the game easily, and again....people will simply have to deal with him.

Except Breakthrough. If I was running Vader that would definitely never see the table....

Hes also honestly quite hard to snipe. Leias card is 1 use only, and with his defence surge and dodge (and if people refuse to close with his zone of control, he will have dodge), he’ll take on average 1 damage from 3 laser cannon AT-RTs. Bit more if they aim, but they’ll actually be taking mode back in tpreturn from deflect amusingly, and they cost more than him.

Hes not in any way OP, but he will be VERY easy to get plenty of value from.

Only one dodge token per turn (in most circumstances). I could see a player deliberately missing with scopes (re-rolling hits for blanks) on one unit to draw the dodge token, then unloading with other units to burn him down when he has no reflect capability.

2 hours ago, Ghost Dancer said:

So, until more commanders are available and you put 2 in your army, there isn't any choice of your 7 command cards? Its always going to be the 4 neutrals and 3 commander cards.

I like the sound of the command system but would have liked a greater choice of cards - I wonder if 2 commanders will be the preferred choice for most people?

If we see many commanders similar in point cost to Leia/Veers I think dual commanders will be a common sight.

You could field two commanders for the price of a decked-out Vader. Your bubble for giving out orders would be larger, your choices in command cards would be larger, and IIRC units within range of your commander can use the commander’s courage value instead of their own. That last part would be hugely beneficial - especially with Vader handing out 3 suppression tokens to his enemies.

4 hours ago, Extropia said:

No way to join units as far as we know.

2 AT-STs with twin blasters could do a number on most things, but to be fair that’s more than 400pts so it seems fair!

Just for curiosity sake, 2 blaster AT-STs without aiming (because I’m lazy) does this against a dodging Vader:

Turn 1;

AT #1 shoots, averages 5.5 hits. Vader reduces that to 1.8 with his defence, then 0.8 with dodge. AT#1 takes 1 deflect damage.

AT# 2 shoots, 5.5 hits, Vader’s defence reduces it to 2.75 (no dodge or surge from deflect this time).

Total damage per turn: 3.5 to Vader, 1 to the AT-STs.

Its that red defence die with a defence surge, it’s freaking nuts. 2 aiming STs with extra blasters WILL drop him in 2 turns though on average....at the cost of 430pts dedicated to shooting him for 1/2 to 2/3 of a game.

Your maths is a little off. Dodge tokens subtract hits before you roll defense die, not the other way round.

Also an atst with twin light blaster is 3 red, 3 black, 3 white which is 3x0.75 + 3x0.5 + 3x0.25 = 4.5 hits

4.5 - 1 (dodge token) = 3 hits

3 x 0.3333 (red defence die w surge) = 1 wound.

Atst #2:

4.5 hits from atst no dodge token

4.5 x 0.5 (red defense die no surge) 2.25

total 3.25 wounds on Vader.

Meh

4 hours ago, tieren said:

Your maths is a little off. Dodge tokens subtract hits before you roll defense die, not the other way round.

Also an atst with twin light blaster is 3 red, 3 black, 3 white which is 3x0.75 + 3x0.5 + 3x0.25 = 4.5 hits

4.5 - 1 (dodge token) = 3 hits

3 x 0.3333 (red defence die w surge) = 1 wound.

Atst #2:

4.5 hits from atst no dodge token

4.5 x 0.5 (red defense die no surge) 2.25

total 3.25 wounds on Vader.

Quite right, my mistake there. Still, he’s a tough one to say the least.

6 hours ago, OMGBRICK said:

If we see many commanders similar in point cost to Leia/Veers I think dual commanders will be a common sight.

You could field two commanders for the price of a decked-out Vader. Your bubble for giving out orders would be larger, your choices in command cards would be larger, and IIRC units within range of your commander can use the commander’s courage value instead of their own. That last part would be hugely beneficial - especially with Vader handing out 3 suppression tokens to his enemies.

I agree. 2 cheaper commanders gives a lot more flexibility and options. Lets hope they release some soon.

Thing is atsts are actually the least efficient in terms of offensive power. Most people see a big unit and thing it must be killer. But points for atst is for its health and amour and even then it’s inefficient.

Compared to fleet troopers which are the most efficient right now. For the same points u get 5x4 fleet troopers = 40 white die = 15 hits

15 x 0.5 (Vader defense die) = 7.5 which is enough to take out Vader almost in one volley.

The most powerful lists really are just ones full of basic troopers. If u can maneuver them and keep them alive they can do wonders

14 hours ago, tieren said:

Thing is atsts are actually the least efficient in terms of offensive power. Most people see a big unit and thing it must be killer. But points for atst is for its health and amour and even then it’s inefficient.

Compared to fleet troopers which are the most efficient right now. For the same points u get 5x4 fleet troopers = 40 white die = 15 hits

15 x 0.5 (Vader defense die) = 7.5 which is enough to take out Vader almost in one volley.

The most powerful lists really are just ones full of basic troopers. If u can maneuver them and keep them alive they can do wonders

Now I want to test Vader vs 20 fleet troopers to see how it would play out. I would still bet on Vader.

12 hours ago, tieren said:

Thing is atsts are actually the least efficient in terms of offensive power. Most people see a big unit and thing it must be killer. But points for atst is for its health and amour and even then it’s inefficient.

Compared to fleet troopers which are the most efficient right now. For the same points u get 5x4 fleet troopers = 40 white die = 15 hits

15 x 0.5 (Vader defense die) = 7.5 which is enough to take out Vader almost in one volley.

The most powerful lists really are just ones full of basic troopers. If u can maneuver them and keep them alive they can do wonders

What are you crapping on about? Theory-hammer all you want, just one problem.......The game hasn't even hit the shelves yet

Yes you’re absolutely right. I’m crapping on about everything and have no idea what I’m talking about. Thank you oh great one for your wisdom

5 hours ago, Timinater said:

What are you crapping on about? Theory-hammer all you want, just one problem.......The game hasn't even hit the shelves yet

Most of the rules are out there and built into tabletop simulator, and one of the apex bruiser lists out there is shaping up to include 6x trooper wall o' dice (rebels with z6's are supposedly exceptionally nasty with good rolling).

There are caveats, but he's not wrong. It's one of these things i keep rabbiting on about with rebel point efficiency being an issue (an x factor there being suppression and unbreakabubbles), but we'll see how it pans out.

1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

Most of the rules are out there and built into tabletop simulator, and one of the apex bruiser lists out there is shaping up to include 6x trooper wall o' dice (rebels with z6's are supposedly exceptionally nasty with good rolling).

There are caveats, but he's not wrong. It's one of these things i keep rabbiting on about with rebel point efficiency being an issue (an x factor there being suppression and unbreakabubbles), but we'll see how it pans out.

I agree that 6 x Z6 trooper units is a heap of dice. And that trooper swam lists will be very hard to beat with their ability to take up objective points.

However tieren is saying that 5 units of 4 Fleet Troopers focus firing on Vader will take him out in one round! hahahhahahaahhahaaaa

As well states that the AT-ST' is "least efficient in terms of offensive power"................?