So in CC rule book it says that in objectives with station cards, like station assault, that

"Stations are treated as ships when resolving effects"

Raddus says

"You may deploy that ship at distance one of a friendly ship"

so can it be one of the stations in my station assault objective?

33 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

So in CC rule book it says that in objectives with station cards, like station assault, that

"Stations are treated as ships when resolving effects"

Raddus says

"You may deploy that ship at distance one of a friendly ship"

so can it be one of the stations in my station assault objective?

Does it say they are friendly?

That's a nice idea. But i think there is a problem. I don't think the station is friendly to you in terms of rules. And this is why Raddus could not work.

Under friendly and enemy in rules reference

"All ships and squadrons in the same fleet are friendly to each other.all ships and squadrons in an opposing fleet are enemy ships and squadrons.

A ship or squadron is friendly to itself and can be targeted by an effect that specifies a friendly target unless it explicitly specifies another ship or squadron."

So even if CC guide doesn't mention friendly per se, maybe the above ruling makes it friendly?

I know people have been using targeting scrambler with station assault.was that not correct?

While attacking or defending I believe is the market, but I But have the rule book with me

48 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

Under friendly and enemy in rules reference

"All ships and squadrons in the same fleet are friendly to each other.all ships and squadrons in an opposing fleet are enemy ships and squadrons.

A ship or squadron is friendly to itself and can be targeted by an effect that specifies a friendly target unless it explicitly specifies another ship or squadron."

So even if CC guide doesn't mention friendly per se, maybe the above ruling makes it friendly?

I know people have been using targeting scrambler with station assault.was that not correct?

I did not find anything that the station is friendly. It is just there. And the stations are not part of your fleet.
Even if all of your ships are destroyed the stations are not part of the fleet and not destroyed. When you lost all ships on station assault, you still have the 80 points from the stations (if they are not destroyed).

About attacking: You can attack everything that is not friendly. There is no word that the target has to be "unfriendly" or belonging to the opponent. The only word is in the FAQ that you are not allowed to attack friendly units. This means, that the player two is even allowed to attack the stations (if he really want....).

43 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

While attacking or defending I believe is the market, but I But have the rule book with me

Np, i can help . From the CC rulebook:

Quote

A station card is similar to a squadron card, but it only has a hull value, anti-squadron armament, battery armament, and rules reminder text. Stations are treated as ships when resolving effects.

They are ships at all time for all effects it seems. But they are not friendly toward player 2 (it can be that i have missed it somewhere).

I think I remember the implication was they were friendly because their cards were placed with your other ship cards, becoming part of your fleet, and thus, friendly to you, and enemy to the enemy...

edut: my memory was half right

10 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I think I remember the implication was they were friendly because their cards were placed with your dower, becoming part of your fleet, and thus, friendly to tou, and enemy to the enemy...

becaue use to attack something, it has to be enemy, not simply non friendly... you choose an enemy to attack.

Right, if they were not enemy to your opponent, your opponent couldn't attack them. Thus they are friendly... Or so it would seem.

No I was wrong.

I don’t think we ever got specific guidance, but the assumption was made that they were ships while attacking and defending, so you could add a bunch of uogradeceffects on both the attack and defense...

Raddus, as it simply says “while resolving effects” seems on first blush to qualify.

At least until we get some guidance otherwise... I need to dive into rukes to see what the implication of them never being friendly or enemy is... and I can’t do that without my computer.

16 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I think I remember the implication was they were friendly because their cards were placed with your other ship cards, becoming part of your fleet, and thus, friendly to you, and enemy to the enemy...

becaue to attack something, it has to be enemy, not simply non friendly... you choose an enemy to attack. That’s part of the attack steps.

I thought so as well. But i did not find it. Only this (from page 2 in the RRG):

Quote

Attack
To perform an attack with a squadron or ship, resolve the following steps:
1. Declare Target: The attacker declares the defender and the attacking hull zone, if any. If the defender is a ship, the attacker declares the defending hull zone. Measure line of sight to the defender to ensure the attack is possible and to determine if it is obstructed.
◊ If the attacker is a ship, the defending squadron or hull zone must be inside the attacking hull zone’s fring arc and at attack range of the attacking hull zone.
◊ If the attacker is a squadron, the defending squadron or hull zone must be at distance 1.

...

• Ships and squadrons cannot attack friendly ships and squadrons.

I just remember the rule, that the stations are not destroyed when all ships are destroyed. The reason, they are not part of the fleet.
This lead to some strange results on matches, and you had to kill the stations before the last ship.

.... I even admitted to being wrong and editing

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

.... I even admitted to being wrong and editing

yes, we are just to fast with posting. I didn't even got the notification for the next two replies

So no go... Darn

29 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

So no go... Darn

Well, there are further implications. I don’t think it’s blush either way.

Raddus off station, and Raddus ships get objective tokens in blockade run is all I want for armada faq Christmas ??????

7 hours ago, SkyCake said:

Raddus off station, and Raddus ships get objective tokens in blockade run is all I want for armada faq Christmas ??????

Just use Advanced Gunnery (for a super MC80 drop) .

But the other two are hard picks. There is nothing that clearly give Raddus such a big bonus.

This has implications for Darth Vader, IO and Devastator - if I (2nd player) can shoot my own stations I can use them to power up Devastator.

@Drasnighta we had a discussion on this some months back and think we left it as one of two options:

a) the stations are 2nd player friendly since they need to be an enemy for the 1st player to shoot

b) if the stations are not friendly then neither player can shoot them since they aren't enemies

19 minutes ago, Kendraam said:

This has implications for Darth Vader, IO and Devastator - if I (2nd player) can shoot my own stations I can use them to power up Devastator.

@Drasnighta we had a discussion on this some months back and think we left it as one of two options:

a) the stations are 2nd player friendly since they need to be an enemy for the 1st player to shoot

b) if the stations are not friendly then neither player can shoot them since they aren't enemies

Those points are not true, unless I'm missing something. I can't find any part of the RRG which says that you can only attack enemy ships or squadros. The only thing that it says is that you cannot attack friendly ships or squadrons:

RRG, page 2: "Ships and squadrons cannot attack friendly ships and squadrons."

So the station doesn't need to be friendly or enemy to no one for them to be able to attack it

EDIT: and yes, the station not being friendly to anyone makes second player able to attack it too

@Lemmiwinks86 From the Learn to Play - "The target of the attack can be either one hull zone of an enemy ship or one or more enemy squadrons."

I agree it is unclear since is it not specified anywhere that you can only attack enemies (it's inferred because you cannot attack friendlies) and stations are only considered ships when resolving effects.

It's down to:

a) you can do anything unless specifically told not to - you can shoot your own stations.

b) you can't do anything unless specifically told you can- you can't shoot your own stations.

I'd dearly love to be able to shoot my own stations when running Vader/IO/Devastator but I now think there is more evidence to suggest you can't than there is suggesting you can.

@Kendraam From my point of view, with the rules written as they are, you can attack the station as second player because the only restriction for attacks is that you cannot attack friendly ships and squadrons (OK, the Learn to Play reffers only to enemy ships or squadrons, but I never take the Learn to Play as definitive rules, and the RRG is very specific on that point of who you can attack), and the station is not friendly to anyone (the objectives tells you to put the armed station card next to the second player's cards, but that doesn't necessarily means that you are adding it to the second player's fleet).
But as I say, it's my opinion from how I read those rules and cards and it's true that it can be argued otherwise, so the final word will be from FFG to tell us wheather the station is friendly to the second player or not

That's how I played it in my fleet, that I could target the station because they are not described as being friendly - however after looking into it in detail i think there is enough evidence to suggest you can't but it does need a ruling.

The RRG doesn't contradict the LtP; the Attack section in the RRG doesn't even talk about 'friendly' or 'enemy' thus I would think the LtP wording stands.

So, when specifically resolving effects the station is a ship - does this mean it is not a ship at other times? Unlikely but it's not specified.

If it is a ship all the time, then is it friendly or enemy? "All ships and squadrons in the same fleet are friendly to each other. All ships and squadrons in an opposing fleet are enemy ships and squadrons." So, if it is in your fleet it is friendly.

But is it in your fleet? Under Fleet Building we have the following "As part of building a fleet, each player must choose three objective cards, one from each category." So, is the objective card part of your fleet and therefore the Unarmed Stations are also part of your fleet? Or are they obstacles?

Nothing is specified!

It doesn't say whether Unarmed Station is in your fleet so I guess if you decide that it isn't then it's not Friendly but then it's not Enemy either. So, do you then rule that both players can shoot it or neither? Going by LtP it's neither since it is not an Enemy, as it's not in your opponent's fleet, you can't target it and it's not in your fleet so neither can your opponent.

If you only go by the RRG, which doesn't mention Friendly or Enemy when Attacking, then both players can target it but I think this is probably wrong. We need a ruling but this is such an edge case it'll probably be a while!

But the part that I quouted that "Ships and squadrons cannot attack friendly ships and squadrons" is from the Attack section of the RRG (for refference, its in page 2, the last dot of the Attack section).
If it said instead "Ships and squadrons can only attack enemy ships and squadrons." then your point would be crystal clear, but as it's written, you would be able to attack the station if it's determined that it is not friendly to anyone.

45 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

"... you would be able to attack the station if it's determined that it is not friendly to anyone."

I'm agreeing with you - the trick is how we determine if it's friendly not. From the RRG: " All ships and squadrons in the same fleet are friendly to each other." Thus

• if it is in your fleet then it is Friendly and only 1st player can shoot it as it is thus an Enemy.
• if it's not in your fleet then it is not Friendly, (nor an Enemy) whatever this means as nothing is described as being neutral and either
  • both players can shoot it (since nowhere states you can't shoot non-Friendly ships) or
  • you default to the Learn to Play and neither player can shoot it because it isn't an Enemy (not being in the opponent's fleet)

The question is thus; are the station cards defined as being in the 2nd player's fleet or not? Since it would be silly if neither player could shoot them, if they are in 2nd players fleet only 1st player can shoot them, if they're not in 2nd players fleet then both players may shoot them.

And for the topic at hand, Raddus, if they are in 2nd player's fleet you can use them to bring in a set aside ship, if they not in 2nd player's fleet you can't.

Nothing concrete either way so down to the individual players or TO to decide I'd say.

2 hours ago, Kendraam said:

@Lemmiwinks86 From the Learn to Play - "The target of the attack can be either one hull zone of an enemy ship or one or more enemy squadrons."

I agree it is unclear since is it not specified anywhere that you can only attack enemies (it's inferred because you cannot attack friendlies) and stations are only considered ships when resolving effects.

It's down to:

a) you can do anything unless specifically told not to - you can shoot your own stations.

b) you can't do anything unless specifically told you can- you can't shoot your own stations.

I'd dearly love to be able to shoot my own stations when running Vader/IO/Devastator but I now think there is more evidence to suggest you can't than there is suggesting you can.

The lern to play is a basics. It is in no way the rulebook. It is, after all, just a tutorial to lern the game. The only real source for the rules are the RRG, the FAQ and the tournament rules. There is no real definition for Enemy. Only for friendly (and this is enough).

In the RRG stand, as @Lemmiwinks86 already said, you cannot attack friendly units. But you can attack everything else. This is by far the easiest way to deal with new cards (the dev team did a good job with this wording). Even the stations fit really well into this, without any need to adjust the rules or make errata. A Station is just there. It is like a ship (can be attacked), it is not friendly to anyone. So no need for complicate rule changes.

Just think what happen when it is friendly. Suddenly you can use all these nice upgrade cards to boost or defend the station (targeting scrambler, repair crew, ...)
This way, it is now, there are no real problems. If you want to attack your station and give the opponent easier access to the victory tokens, go for it. The damage you are burning in the station might be more than the bonus you gain from the dice (might!).

Actually ?

learn to play ARE rules.

They only fail to count when contradicted by the RRG...

its rare, but not unique to find something there...