So, I liked the exploration tokens, but it think they extended and complicated the heroes turns. I'm still up in the air if it is worth while to play with them. I like having them as alternatives though. I think I'll leave them out the next couple of games. I would only add this rule among players with one or two games under their belt and who grasped the rules.

Epic, is the way to go, for my group. I think that 6 rune stones can be fairly easy to protect . Only needing to get four allows this to end sometimes quite quickly. (My last 4 player game i won with only one battle against another player towards the end of year 3.(I was sad to see very few of the stronger units out)) I also think the fact that having the runes revealed adds pressure and makes it more clear who is in the lead even though it is easy to figure out. Also, because people will tend to put the runes into their home land, it makes it more appealing to invade a homeland.

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Here are some very important links the official rulings, and a compilation of answered questions by forum member sigma zero. (print these out and keep them in your box)

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now, here are some homebrew rules i have seen/made-up;

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HomeBrew--

REGARDING RUNES

Semi-epic, play to 7, but start with 2. (Essentially increase the rune stones needed by 1)

Epicly-epic, get one, play to 8.

(you can add or subtract the false rune/hidden rune rule if you like, though it may cause you to run out of runes)

REGARDING DIPLOMACY

Here is the thread where user Dark elf offers an alternative way for diplomacy. It is very well thought out, is logically beautiful, And in my opinion deserves to be in the expansion rulebook as an alternate.

So, what do you guys have to add? (I was going to check the bgg forums but they are down)

secret epic -epic rules but still use the false runes. False runes ROCK, and give the heroes more exploring to do. I love the bluff aspect of the false runes.

If you are playing with 4 players, you will run out of rune tokens, so at that point exchange some of the dragon runes with other markers. you can make players have 1 or 2 runes that are not secret, (beads, legos, pennies... whatever.) This also balances the game a little. The more runes you have, the less you can hide the real ones.

I would love it for each race to have its own unique order card... maybe a one time use order/power/spell that reflected their strength or agenda.

Some examples: Undead get to summon an undead dragon, maybe after killing one, or walk through a water area outside of winter (skeletons dont need to breath), Chaos get to summon a firestorm to smite a hex or stronghold (damage one stronghold or maybe draw 4 cards and damage/rout some units), elves get to summon some woodland creatures to assist them in a time of need, humans get to build a new city.... Special things that you cant normally do.

As it is, I think the races could use a little more unique personality. The units tend not to feel very good or evil, nor the heroes. Some of the units that feel thematic to me include the berzerkers, the necromancers, the elvin archers (little snipers), and the seige engines. Dragons and giants are also cool, and I do like the knight ability... thematic though? maybe....

The rest have abilities that dont particularly reflect the unit (why does a fleshripper or sorceror get extra hitpoints as a special? Undead archers... elvin sorceresses... They make sense strategically, but if I asked a hundred people to think of a special ability for a FLESHRIPPER, none would think of "add two hitpoints."

As it is, the good guys will get more influence, and the evil guys more tactics, but ild like a little more theme. A few of the objectives are a little more good or evil (I like the evil objective to kill a player's last hero... thats just mean) but some of the others are very generic and not really thematic).

Options for resolving quests... choosing good or evil. Save the princess and get some influence or reward, or feed her to the beast and get a new ally.

I love the idea of race specific order cards. It would be kinda frustrating though to have to use a "undead walk under water" instead of "Harvest". So perhaps to preserve that what we could have is tactics cards that have extra/different powers depending on the race. Since the cards are too small for all races a card might say (for example) "Secret passage way" Your units can go through mountians in normal movement Secondary- if you are undead player, you may choose to have your units move through blue borders on non winter turns. (perhaps there would be room for another faction specific power.)

This opens up options, with out changing order cards, or even adding extra rules.

mateooo said:

The Sorcerer probably gets theirs from Descent, where they have the Undying ability (which is what the Runewars Sorcerer ability is called, too). Basically, they make pacts with whatever entities, and in return they are somewhat protected from dying. It's not foolproof (in Descent, Undying isn't a given, it just has a chance of reviving the unit), but it basically just prolongs their life.

With the Fleshrippers, it could just represent something similar, too - some kind of Demonic possesion that keeps them alive longer than they would normally be able to, some kind of unholy healing.

I think the idea of race-specific orders would be cool, but I think it would be VERY difficult to balance them. The Undead and the Uthuk are arguably the most combat-oriented races anyway, and giving them more offensive capabilities would probably make them too powerful.

well, in regards to "fleshrippers" you can retroactively explain their ability somehow, but really, what I see is what looks like a fast, maybe sneaky, viscious animal with lots of spikes, so I would expect some sort of equivalent power... but not something that makes them more durable... oh well.

For example, the one time order that works like conquor except instead of giving the bonus against fortresses, the bonus is that units can move through water (maybe only the archers and reanimates, since necromancers are not undead, and people can't ride horses underwater... unless they were Snorks and they were riding sea horses.) So you wouldnt use it instead of harvest, you would use it instead of conquer or mobilize.

And maybe the Elf one would be another recruit card that summons neutral beasts, and they dont have to be placed in strongholds.

The human one would just make a new city as an order... thats about equivalent to a fortify... or maybe a human ability that gives them a bonus defense for cities...

just ideas

Of course, you could also just make them some race specific tactics-like cards, which could have a similar effect.

mateooo said:

in my games, the good races have been just as combat driven as the evil races... in fact, Ive found the demons to be the weakest or 2nd weakest militarily, though Ill have to see if this pans out as I keep playing. I feel like they are the most difficult to play. Undead and Human seem like the best (nothing like free reanimates and free tactics cards from your units)

mateooo said:

The Uthuk weaker militarily than the ELVES? The ELVES? Who have 2 of their Unit abilities causing routes/retreats instead of DAMAGE?

The Uthuk have: an ability to absorb hits, one to cause 2 damage (at the cost of 1 unit each), one that does nasty damage against triangle and rectangle units (especially in groups), and one that can outright DESTROY routed units! (the last being a hexagon which is powerful in it's own right)

The Undead have: The ability to destroy units instantly, bring more troops into battle, cause 2 damage per orb (if in a group of 2 or more), and a Hexagon unit which can cause routs.

The Humans have: The ability to damage multi-hit figures, rout units and gain tactics cards, deal damage (and possibly 2 to multiple-hit figures), and add to end-strength. No circle units, so they get the least number of Orbs overall.

The Elves have: The ability to choose which units to hit, rout units, retreat units, and deal a damage or kill a damaged unit. They have NO Hexagon units.

If I were to rank them from most military-power to least, it would be:

1. Undead (mostly because they can so easily swarm)
2. Uthuk (all their abilities are damage/destroy oriented)
3. Humans (theirs are more defensive, though they have offensive capabilities)
4. Elves (not bad, but certainly the weakest in combat)

Granted, a lot of it depends on the strategy and out-thinking of your opponent, but to have the Uthuk be weaker than the ELVES? Or even the Humans? They're all ABOUT destruction!

Im not saying that the elves are supposed to be good militarily, but honestly, Ive played a LOT of games, and never seen a Demon or death knight actually pull off a special... They just get routed, retreated or destroyed before they get a chance. Or they are involved in battles where everything is defeated before they even get a chance to do anything.

The only sides I see successful in combat are the undead and humans... for whatever reason, the uthuk have not been militarily successful in any of my games... whether thats because they have been played wrong or what. Those human knights and necromancers ROCK... I have them attack every chance possible. And when they attack, they trigger abilities which help them attack even more next year, with more units and more tactics.

The only units that tend to even get a chance to attack are the faster units... that Dragon, or Giant or demon or death knight might seem fine and dandy, but once they are routed, they dont do crap, and elves have units that get to choose who they damage and who they rout.

Honestly, I think hex units should get some sort of other bonus... maybe they count for 2 figures at battle resolution, or they dont get routed unless (stipulation). As it is, Ild rather have a few more archers, knights or necromancers...

mateooo said:

Personally, I actually like the Hex units as they are. That they only count as one unit, it forces you to not use them as a backbone, but to diversify your army with smaller units. The Battlemist game was like that in a way. Footmen were the weakest units, but you HAD to have them in your army, because at the end of any battle round, if you had no standing Footmen left, you automatically lost the battle! Runewars isn't quite as dramatic, but it forces you to keep a healthy number of weak units to bolster your ranks!

interesting. i think this is a great and balanced game, mostly i just want to have options open.

As far as hex based units, i saw a army with 2 trolls pull off 5 damage.

Interestingly, hex-units can sometimes help you win through death. (i.e. take more damage so your strength is higher )

I think hex based units perform very well, except against the elves. Elven precision is a wonderfull thing. I think the elven units have a genuine feel to them. I had one archer squad take out the stronger units, and another one one to cause them to be destroyed because they had no where to retreat to, which i felt was very elven.