I've been flying him, he's still often the last one on the table, and if he isn't, someone's been shooting the wrong target. As long as there's no Sabine or Cad Bane on the table, I think he does really well. He's also still scary, people know that he's really hard to take down.

1 minute ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

He never existed (in canon). ?

Yes, I love that the Mary Sue character of Soontir no longer exists. He and Boba were blights upon the EU in that they were these 'always perfect' characters that ended up rising to absurd positions of Political Power, all by virtue of being potent fighters. Boba Fett isn't just a good-at-combat freelance bounty hunter... no, no, he has to go on to become the Mandalore for all of the Mandalorians. Soontir isn't just a good pilot, no he has to spawn a line of descendants that become the ruling line of Emperors of the Imperial Remnant. Emperor Roan Fel, I'm looking at you!

It's the equivalent of having Rocky Balboa become President of the United States while Ivan Drago becomes the Czar of the USSR. It's not technically impossible... but it's pretty stupid and preposterously unlikely.

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

It's the equivalent of having Rocky Balboa become President of the United States while Ivan Drago becomes the Czar of the USSR. It's not technically impossible... but it's pretty stupid and preposterously unlikely.

By that logic all OT characters are garbage as well, because it plays out nearly the same for Wedge, Luke, the Solo's (and Han's Cousin for Pete's sake) … the fault lies not within the characters, but within the writers of the late EU. A lot of people were quite happy about burning it all down for a reason. ;-)

3 hours ago, Icelom said:

Probably same reason i dont really like or respect Lowhriick. However Lowhriick's mods are not generally locked into defense and he can eat a turn of damage when things go wrong (bump or what not). Not to mention he brings an ability that can transfer his defensive mods onto other ships. Very very different ships. How you can even compare the two other then they cost the same is frankly mind boggling.

Holy cow, tone it down ?. This just comes across as “I think you’re a ******* idiot.” I get if you disagree with me, and maybe I came across as inflammatory in which case...sorry. But “frankly mind boggling”...that escalated quickly.

My point was a bit tongue-in-cheek; I get that there are differences. But the main argument is that *the reason* you don’t see a ton of Soontir has very little to do with his offensive output. We are very much in a meta of slow, consistent damage and defense. Yeah, Soontir is different from Lowie, but not in the relevant sense of offense being Soontir’s reason for not existing.

(I also don’t think the comparison is THAT far off in the first place, but that’s a separate issue. I’d say they’re both pretty reliant on actions, though, have guns on target roughly as often, have similar levels of passive defense, have similar offensive mods, and so on. Soontir does worse against bombs and has no support ability. Of course they fly differently. Duh. But in terms of power level, they seem like they should be similar, and yet they aren’t; so the relevant difference probably has more to do with bombs and synergies than the qualities they share.)

3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yes, I love that the Mary Sue character of Soontir no longer exists. He and Boba were blights upon the EU in that they were these 'always perfect' characters that ended up rising to absurd positions of Political Power, all by virtue of being potent fighters. Boba Fett isn't just a good-at-combat freelance bounty hunter... no, no, he has to go on to become the Mandalore for all of the Mandalorians. Soontir isn't just a good pilot, no he has to spawn a line of descendants that become the ruling line of Emperors of the Imperial Remnant. Emperor Roan Fel, I'm looking at you!

It's the equivalent of having Rocky Balboa become President of the United States while Ivan Drago becomes the Czar of the USSR. It's not technically impossible... but it's pretty stupid and preposterously unlikely.

I'll never defend egregious borbafett wankery, but Soontir at least was a Baron and not just some pilot. That's actually probably what those later writers were thinking. They probably saw that he was a Baron in the reference materials and were like "Oh alright he'll be the new imperial bloodline 'cause he's like a Baron." Why would sheev bother to instate Baronies across the Empire in the first place? Star Wars reasons I guess.

10 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yes, I love that the Mary Sue character of Soontir no longer exists. He and Boba were blights upon the EU in that they were these 'always perfect' characters that ended up rising to absurd positions of Political Power, all by virtue of being potent fighters. Boba Fett isn't just a good-at-combat freelance bounty hunter... no, no, he has to go on to become the Mandalore for all of the Mandalorians. Soontir isn't just a good pilot, no he has to spawn a line of descendants that become the ruling line of Emperors of the Imperial Remnant. Emperor Roan Fel, I'm looking at you!

It's the equivalent of having Rocky Balboa become President of the United States while Ivan Drago becomes the Czar of the USSR. It's not technically impossible... but it's pretty stupid and preposterously unlikely.

Yo Adrian 2020

Let the past die.

Kill it, if you have to.

11 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Soontir is a paradox

Any time he's attacked he's either completely unharmed or o ne-shot due to green dice volatility. One can say that during every throw of the dice, Soontir is simultaneously alive and dead

Schrodinger's TIE

Agreed. Duchess or Epsilon Ace going 'bamf' when hit is one thing, but invulnerable/invulnerable/spontaneously dead is somewhat unrewarding gameplay.

It might take you the same amount of actual shots to cut through kylo's twice-as-many-hits but less tokens, but it actually feels like you're achieving something even if you're actually losing just as badly.

And it's the same for both sides, because we've all been on one side of the board or another in that game. Come on, you all know the words:

Range 3...

....Through A Rock....

....With full tokens....

7 hours ago, Bike Stunts said:

I'll never defend egregious borbafett wankery, but Soontir at least was a Baron and not just some pilot. That's actually probably what those later writers were thinking. They probably saw that he was a Baron in the reference materials and were like "Oh alright he'll be the new imperial bloodline 'cause he's like a Baron." Why would sheev bother to instate Baronies across the Empire in the first place? Star Wars reasons I guess.

Because apparently being the best fighter pilot evar!!1! and having non-standard red on his fighter was too subtle an allusion....

But he's not the only 'created Baron' - Tagge (an industrialist) was one too, and it was important enough for his brothers to squabble over, so presumably the title comes with something concrete.

12 hours ago, Lightrock said:

He can still do a lot. Forget the 35 point stealth device version though. 3 dice with a single modifier won't cut it anymore. He needs targeting computer. With it,he can TL, focus and either evade or reposition in a single round. He's even squishier than he used to, so you need to fly well and get the most out of him while he's still alive.

That's the only way I'd ever flown him, really - if you are relying on his green dice to survive, you've already made a fatal flaw, as green dice are treacherous and fickle little bastards. And for his cost, yeah, he needs to hit harder. So AT + TC, all the way.

Quote

Less Bombs + More TLT = More Soontir?

General Powercreep(tm) says no.

7 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

General Powercreep(tm) says no.

It's not only the power creep, it's the nerf to Palpatine as well, Stealth Device on Soontir got significantly worse that way. Palp is used instead much more offensively, which is actually a good thing, but does not come handy for a 3 HP interceptor in more than one way, because crits became more common as well. The increased amount of dice rolled on top do not help for sure either.

19 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

It's not only the power creep, it's the nerf to Palpatine as well, Stealth Device on Soontir got significantly worse that way. Palp is used instead much more offensively, which is actually a good thing, but does not come handy for a 3 HP interceptor in more than one way, because crits became more common as well. The increased amount of dice rolled on top do not help for sure either.

And also that there's a lot of more subtle design choices that make life harder for Soontir. Since he was really in his heyday we've had a lot of ships arrive in the game with extended firing arcs - Shadowcasters, ARCs, TIE/sf, Auzitucks etc. That's more space on the table that Soontir can't arc-dodge and is taking fire from, and unlike turrets it's space that he can't rely on Autothrusters in.

Plus red dice creep & mod creep.

Plus defensive creep makes his offense anaemic.

Plus more PS10+ being played.

Plus bombs.

Plus Palp nerf.

Soontir got squeezed on pretty much every front at once. THAT SAID... he did pretty well on the table when Duncan Howard flew him before christmas.