Hey all,

So I am thinking of running 3 Nu-QD for an upcoming regional, but am getting scared of the Fenn-Ghost build, and wondering if it is a hopeless matchup or is possible to win, and if it is possible, what is the target priority/tactics?

If, on the other hand, it is a very bad matchup, what other list (I play empire) might I consider to have a shot against Fenn-Ghost.

If you are playing empire and you come up against most Fenn-Ghost builds/opponents, you are fighting an up hill battle.

The Ghost of flavor at the moment (TLT, Maul, Ezra, and a docked phantom) requires a few good shots at range 1 from the sides OR heavy bombs. Multiple stress dealt to the Ghost will also help neutralize repeated use of Maul.

The problem you are going to have with dealing with Fenn-Ghost in the current meta if you have 3 Nu-QD is that one of your Nu's is problem going to get hit for 3 or 4 damage on the first wave of TLT shots.

I would recommend using slam to block the ghost so you know where it will be while also getting QD into a range 1 opportunity into the juicy side of the ghost. Obviously the Nu's alone against the current ghost of flavor are dead meat. Use at least one as a blocker each round and force the Ghost to make moves it does not want to make (over debris for example and performing red maneuvers).

Can you not just nuke Fenn in one round? Granted, it’s easier said than done, but if you set it up right you ought to be able to bring him down real quick and then SLAM away. Maybe lose one ship. After that, the Ghost should be easier to deal with. Still a pain, mind you, since he can bring any of your ships down to half health in one round, but with a bunch of Harpoons he should be somewhat manageable.

1 hour ago, Ailowynn said:

Can you not just nuke Fenn in one round? Granted, it’s easier said than done, but if you set it up right you ought to be able to bring him down real quick and then SLAM away. Maybe lose one ship. After that, the Ghost should be easier to deal with. Still a pain, mind you, since he can bring any of your ships down to half health in one round, but with a bunch of Harpoons he should be somewhat manageable.

I agree.

Nuke Fenn. If your opponent keeps Fenn back because of it, so much the better and your primaries will still hurt the ghost pretty badly in that initial engagement. If not, Fenn takes Harpoons and does some bonus splash on the Ghost. The next turn, slam away if you think you can get safe to reload. If not, keep up the pressure. Beware of blocking, though, because a savvy player will use coordinate to boost on the blocked ghost to get past the blocker (and maybe other shots).

Thanks for the advice, it is definitely along the lines I was thinking. Here's a question: I saw a guy win a regional in South Africa (small, 30 person regional, but still) where one of the Nus was replaced by Countdown and QD gets advanced optics. Do you think this is viable? I'm thinking Countdown can go in to shut down any boosts the the ghost can do, sitting at range 1 of the forward arc. If the ghost decides to attack Countdown with a 5-die primary, you just take a stress and 1 damage. If he used Maul, he doesnt clear stress because the attack didn't hit. You, on the other hand, get a 4 die attack right back. Will this work, or do I lose too much in other matchups?

Delete Fenn first.

Also, I'd consider bringing Flechette Torpedos on at least two of your Gunboats:

3 dice attack, Range 2-3 " Attack (target lock): Discard this card and spend your target lock to perform this attack. After you perform this attack, the defender receives 1 stress token if its hull value is '4' or lower. "

They'll shut down Fenn's ability pretty quick (if he's already stressed himself from using it, he's done half your job) by doubling or tripling his stress. Unfortunately, you have to spend your lock and they don't add stress to the Ghost.

Look, killing Fenn first is obviously correct.

But killing Palp first against Palp Aces is also obviously correct (deliberate misinformation to the contrary notwithstanding).

Getting a good route to Fenn with enough firepower to kill him, while taking withering fire from the Ghost, is much more difficult than killing Palp, which was so difficult people (not me) already thought it was unfair.

So yes, kill Fenn first. That is your only chance. But it's not a big chance, except against a player who serves him up on a tarnished silver platter.

There are lists that can beat Fenn-Ghost. No question. But I haven't found one yet that beats Fenn-Ghost and stands up decently to other strong squadrons. One guy suggested Double-Ghost, Accuracy Corrector, TLT, Engine. I can't gainsay it, having not played it, but I'm skeptical. Maybe something like this:

Lothal Rebel (35)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Courier Droid (0)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Lothal Rebel (35)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Courier Droid (0)
Intelligence Agent (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I spoke to a friend who play a QD + Nux3 after a regional where he faced Lothal+Fenn, he told me he's bigest mistake was to try to block the ghost. Cause after a VP11 coordinated boost, ghost was R1 of all Nus, with 2 in his arcs (one in the front the ther in the back)

He told me he also should have bump volontary with QD to have R1 shots on the ghost.

In the same regional I've played an expertise Rey + Lowhhrick, it was really great versus all the lists I encounter (finish 1st after 5 suisses rounds) , exept the big mistake I did round 3 versus a Lothal+Fenn in 1/2 final: don't go on Fenn, he can't push damage enought, go straight to the Ghost, he can be dead in 3 rounds max, (7/8 dices a turn and it boomed easily if you anticipate its moves+boosts).

Fenn only give an action, not really a good damage dealer, and he can be destroyed easily after.

If you focus on Fenn (what the opponent hope) the Ghost can damage your ships a lot. And kill you main force before you can realize.

14 minutes ago, Grendelator said:

Fenn only give an action, not really a good damage dealer, and he can be destroyed easily after.

If you think that's all that Fenn does, you are badly misunderstanding the list.

15 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Look, killing Fenn first is obviously correct.

But killing Palp first against Palp Aces is also obviously correct (deliberate misinformation to the contrary notwithstanding).

Getting a good route to Fenn with enough firepower to kill him, while taking withering fire from the Ghost, is much more difficult than killing Palp, which was so difficult people (not me) already thought it was unfair.

So yes, kill Fenn first. That is your only chance. But it's not a big chance, except against a player who serves him up on a tarnished silver platter.

There are lists that can beat Fenn-Ghost. No question. But I haven't found one yet that beats Fenn-Ghost and stands up decently to other strong squadrons. One guy suggested Double-Ghost, Accuracy Corrector, TLT, Engine. I can't gainsay it, having not played it, but I'm skeptical. Maybe something like this:

Lothal Rebel (35)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Courier Droid (0)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Lothal Rebel (35)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Courier Droid (0)
Intelligence Agent (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

When the counter is a variant of the same ship is it truly a counter? It’s like saying countermeasures dengar is the game balance answer for 3 scouts.

Also it would e nice if the game stopped favoring heavily upgraded 2 large ships for a while. Though it’s obvious why. There’s no useful counter tools to them whatsoever. Unlike all the bombs and auto damage for aces.

With 3 NuQD you have take Fenn out first or he is gonna neuter two of your missiles every round (HSCP on one and his ability on another) or neuter QD and Ghost can go willy nilly all over QD and the revenge shots are gonna be naked dice thanks to Fenn. If you can trade Fenn for a gunboat, be happy with that as you now have three arcs vs the Ghost. Try not to head on joust the ghost. Use rocks and the slam to try and get behind-ish the ghost. If you are barely out of range 3 behind the ghost, you can 1 forward and reload, while it spends a round turning around for range again. Its a tactic Ive been using with Corran, where I can double tap the ghost, then just 1 forward regen while it forwards or banks and gives me a round or two to regen before we come back into battle.

47 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Look, killing Fenn first is obviously correct.

But killing Palp first against Palp Aces is also obviously correct (deliberate misinformation to the contrary notwithstanding).

Getting a good route to Fenn with enough firepower to kill him, while taking withering fire from the Ghost, is much more difficult than killing Palp, which was so difficult people (not me) already thought it was unfair.

So yes, kill Fenn first. That is your only chance. But it's not a big chance, except against a player who serves him up on a tarnished silver platter.

There are lists that can beat Fenn-Ghost. No question. But I haven't found one yet that beats Fenn-Ghost and stands up decently to other strong squadrons. One guy suggested Double-Ghost, Accuracy Corrector, TLT, Engine. I can't gainsay it, having not played it, but I'm skeptical. Maybe something like this:

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I think you're mixing up the threads? I mean, I agree with most of what you're saying, but he was asking for specific tactics with his list (QD3Nu) and then asked if there were better imperial options.

1 hour ago, SirCormac said:

Thanks for the advice, it is definitely along the lines I was thinking. Here's a question: I saw a guy win a regional in South Africa (small, 30 person regional, but still) where one of the Nus was replaced by Countdown and QD gets advanced optics. Do you think this is viable? I'm thinking Countdown can go in to shut down any boosts the the ghost can do, sitting at range 1 of the forward arc. If the ghost decides to attack Countdown with a 5-die primary, you just take a stress and 1 damage. If he used Maul, he doesnt clear stress because the attack didn't hit. You, on the other hand, get a 4 die attack right back. Will this work, or do I lose too much in other matchups?

It's an interesting counter tactic but the bottom line is that Countdown doesn't like TLTs either, so if your trick doesn't gain you much then you're back to square one and worse off anyway. Countdown does work against harpoons, too, so there is that and he gives you a higher PS in the mirror, but generally, I'd just go with the bigger guns.

11 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I think you're mixing up the threads?

I was just responding to the recent posts.

1 hour ago, AlexW said:

It's an interesting counter tactic but the bottom line is that Countdown doesn't like TLTs either, so if your trick doesn't gain you much then you're back to square one and worse off anyway. Countdown does work against harpoons, too, so there is that and he gives you a higher PS in the mirror, but generally, I'd just go with the bigger guns.

Yeah, I think you're right. If Countdown gets caught at range 2-3, he'll be dead in 1 round of TLT from the ghost. At least a Gunboat would still be alive.

2 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

If you think that's all that Fenn does, you are badly misunderstanding the list.

In the context of (what I assume, because what else are the points going towards...) an expertise Rey and Low then yeah that's all he does

1 hour ago, Makaze said:

In the context of (what I assume, because what else are the points going towards...) an expertise Rey and Low then yeah that's all he does

Exactly, I was talking of lists with expertise, which is a big counter to the VCX+Fenn list. Fenn power, the sensor jammer and "edit : Hotshot not gunner" are useless (more than 10 points useless in a list is really big).

If your list need tokens to modifie dices, Fenn is dangerous to your firepower. And if you focus the ghost you'll take longer to hurt him.

Expertise helps, but it's not exactly a "counter." (Gunner? What Gunner?)

Making Fenn's ability and Sensor Jammer irrelevant is great, yes, but that's the thing about the list: (1) Boost at PS 11 is huge . (You can block it. If you want to take 5 modified dice to the face.) (2) TLT/Maul/Ezra is huge . Against any AGI under 3, it's nearly guaranteed 4 damage a turn.

The thing is, just ballparking, everything in Fenn-Ghost makes it about the equivalent of a 115-120 point list. If you negate even 10 points of that, you're still looking at an uphill battle. It's not impossible, thanks to your tokenless mods, but it's rough.

2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Expertise helps, but it's not exactly a "counter." (Gunner? What Gunner?)

Sorry hotshot not gunner

Yes the boost at PS11 is great, but also you can predict it a little.

Ezra+Maul modification is also a good weapon, there are other good weapons that may be use.

I find the Rey+Lowhhrick list a good match up toward Lothal+Fenn, nothing is fixed with Rey's mobility and both firepower. You can punch through the ghost in 3 turn max, taking some damage if you fly well (having flew a kanan+biggs I'm a little used to the ghost movement, even with the bosst at PS11).

Other weapon to use PS11 aces with at least 2 points bid to be sure to move last and get the ghost sideway R1. It's not easy I know

Practice is the best weapon you can have etherways (and luck on dices)

16 minutes ago, Grendelator said:

I find the Rey+Lowhhrick list a good match up toward Lothal+Fenn

That's exactly what I'm looking at, as well. Dunno what Crew for Lowhhrick. Experimental Interface + Lando? Tactician + R2-D2?

45 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

(You can block it. If you want to take 5 modified dice to the face.)

That's kind of OK though, at least for that list. Rey/Low will be throwing back 9 dice all focused plus a pseudo TL on 5 of them, and with the reinforce are taking an absolute max of 4 in return. They win that damage trade. Even with some misses or Low not firing one round, that's generally a turn 3 PS kill with both ships alive barring extreme variance.

It's not a slam dunk but I think the matchup on average and assuming equal skill goes against Ghost/Fenn. Whether it's good enough against other things in the field is up for debate.

(I went with Tactician + Kanan on Low and C3-P0 + Finn on Rey, new or old title I'm still debating)

34 minutes ago, Makaze said:

That's kind of OK though, at least for that list. Rey/Low will be throwing back 9 dice all focused plus a pseudo TL on 5 of them, and with the reinforce are taking an absolute max of 4 in return. They win that damage trade. Even with some misses or Low not firing one round, that's generally a turn 3 PS kill with both ships alive barring extreme variance.

Pseudo-TL on 5 dice? You mean on (up to) 2 of them?

I do think you're still underestimating the PS 11 Boost, but I do agree that this line of list-building is the way to go. (My local FB group has a couple of guys arguing for triple-Defenders, and I can only shake my head. They have no idea of the heinousness of the Ezra/Maul Fenn-Ghost.)

The thing is, I honestly don't know if I'm being serious.

Rey (45)
Expertise (4)
Finn (5)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

Warden Squadron Pilot (23)
Extra Munitions (2)
Sabine Wren (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Cluster Mines (4)
Experimental Interface (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

With all of the Fenn craziness, what about this:

Quickdraw: Expertise, Advanced Optics, FCS, LWF, Title, Harpoons

2xNu: HLC, Title, Linked Battery, LRS

All ships have a way around Fenn, as well as defense against Black One.

so, what's the ghost/Fenn Build?