Which of the 2 expansions do you recommend me to get first? Which one is 'funner' or 'adds more to the game'?

hm.. KiY is probably harder, Cotdp doesnt have a herald unless you print it out from online (which is free to do, but still, it doesnt look as nice). There is a lot of love for cotdp because of encounters and theme, however, I think I like KiY better.

KiY gives you additional unique and common items (cotdp doesnt), although both of them give you spells. cotdp gives you exhibit items, which are kinda cool, but you can only get them through encounters and some other special circumstances (an environment or two). I dont find the cotdp exhibit items that much more interesting or compelling than the KiY uniques. Cotdp does have Allies (kiy does not) many of which are quite good.

Personally my reccomendation is for KiY, but you can decide for yourself. Would you rather have commons + uniques or exhibits + allies?

KiY comes with some nice UIs (Gladius of Carcosa and Cursed Sphere FTW), but also a few doozies (Shrine to an Elder God and Throne of Carcosa in particular suck more than Azathoth's winning record). All you need to know about KiY's Common Items: 2x Press Pass ! Almost game-breakers, tilt the game toward easy quite a bit.

CotDP has better Mythos (Clothing Drive and Cursed Relics ) and of course has everyone's favourite 3 OW GOO fight encounters .

*egads* Press Pass is indeed mega-useful. I would have thought that should be something gained by Encounter at Newspaper and like a retainer roll to lose etc.

Rob

Yeah, Dark Pharaoh has cooler encounters but King in Yellow actually has items. KiY is harder and, like awp said, doesn't require you to print out its herald.

Dark Pharaoh has the infamous dual-colored OW cards that are fun as hell.

I think, on average, people like the KiY expansion more. If you want my opinion, check my sig.

Is it fair to say that something like that useful Press Pass is okay in KiY precisely because it's harder, the 3 Acts etc. If you play it straight and not all diluted?

valvorik said:

But once properly diluted, PPs become rarer. Still, even getting one is very nice, can't help but recall a game where I drew both. Sure, Trish lost 8 Clues in an OW encounter (no check or nothing, didn't have a Tome, so poof went all Clues), but after coming back out, 3 turns later she was back to 8+ Clues.

Here's what I said over on BGG:

Dark Pharaoh:
Pros: Great theme. Interesting Encounters. Some Spells are kinda nifty. Exhibits are very nifty. Allies rock!
Cons: Encounters and Mythos are plagued with poorly-worded phrases and mechanics. Exhibits do not remain nifty for very long. Benefits/Detriments may seem interesting because they are new, but there are only four of each, and they wear out their welcome very quickly. Barred from Neighborhood is a wretched mechanic. For the most part, this expansion doesn't enhance the AO Nyarlathotep at all. Herald not included.

King in Yellow:
Pros: Most investigator cards are interesting and fun. Loaded with theme. Puts serious life into the Terror Track. When played as the only expansion, the Next Act mechanic adds tension. Herald is fun and challenging. Enhances Hastur quite a bit.
Cons: ...uh...when mixed with too many expansions...no, that's true for any expansion...Blights suck...no, they rock, I'm just bitter about last week's game...sorry, I really can't think of anything to go here.

Black Goat:
Pros: Herald is a major challenge. Cult Deck and Corruptions are fun mechanics. Mythos Gate Bursts are not dependent on any other board but Arkham. Dark Druid makes for some nifty monster movement.
Cons: If playing without the brutal Herald, almost everything else in the box virtually disappears from play, and with those cards "missing", the theme of the box evaporates.

one more thing about cotdp.... and i have to say this because it really annoys me:

i hate those encounters/ mythos cards where it makes you search for a specific monster, get it out of the cup, and fight it/ put it into play. the game grinds to a halt, uuugh.. plus i usually spill all the monster tokens all over the floor.

jgt7771 said:

I can't resist responding here. First, I should admit that Dark Pharaoh his my favorite of the small box expansions. It has the best and most thematic Mythos cards, and some truly excellent Other World cards (such as the dual colored ones which let you fight Ithaqua, Shub-Niggurath or Cthulhu in the middle of the game). The Allies are so good that my brother has commented that he feels like they should be the main ones opposing the AO and HE should be THEIR ally. Half of the Exhibit Items are okay, but the other half are pretty darn good; I must disagree that they wear out their welcome or that the Benefit and Detriment cards do. Yes, the Barred from the Neighborhood is relatively blah and half or more of the spells are lame. There are some problems in interpreting certain cards, but I do think this fault has been exaggerated. Finally, although a Herald is not included in the box, the Dark Pharoah Herald can be printed out for free, and he certainly does strongly enhance Nyralathotep! With the power of the Allies and Exhibits in this expansion, I generally never play it without the Dark Pharoah Herald, to avoid detracting too much from the challenge.

Come on, JGT, you seriously couldn't remember any of the King in Yellow's flaws? Guess it's up to me then. The Mythos cards in KiY are good, if not as good as the Dark Pharoah ones. The Other World cards are mediocore. The King in Yellow Herald is probably the best of all Heralds available and does indeed put serious life (or death . . .) in the Terror Track. The Spells are certainly good, as are some of the Common and Unique Items, but overall the flood of these new common and unique items makes it much harder to pick up weapons. Furthermore, the two Press Passes are awful items, as they make the game much too easy.

Too easy is actually the big problem with this expansion. The KiY Mythos cards ONLY add gate openings for the frequent and moderate locations; there are no cards opening gates at Hibb's Roadhouse, the Science Building, the Silver Twilight Lodge or the Historical Society. There are also no gate bursts. The overall effect is therefore to slow the Doom track to a crawl, since the rare gate locations open more rarely than ever, while you can seal the frequent locations and laugh as card after card comes up for those locations and does nothing. While using this expansion and playing with a bunch of newbies we sealed away YIG, and it wasn't even hard! That should give you a pretty good idea of how badly the gate distribution of the Mythos cards and lack of gate bursts in this expansion hurt the game. To be fair, using the King in Yellow Herald does remedy this to a large extent. Adding Innsmouth undoubtedly would as well, but when using the KiY expansion you really can't add any other expansion without the Next Act cards becoming a bad joke, which is yet another problem with the expansion.

Black Goat of the Woods, ugh! I drove twelve hours to get this expansion at GenCon. If I'd known then what I know now, I wouldn't have crossed the street for it. BGotW is without a doubt the worst expansion for the game, in my opinion. The Mythos and Other World cards are incedibly boring and useless, with only ONE good Mythos card (The Funnel-shaped Cloud environment) and no Other World cards of note. The Common and Unique Items are for the most part nothing to cheer about, nor is the spell deck. The Herald isn't a major challenge, but a ridiculously hard obstacle (and remember, this from someone who enjoys challenging Arkham games). The Cult and Corruption cards are cool, but without Uber-Herald it will be difficult to come across either of them. And yes, the Dark Druid is seriously nasty.

Solan said:

Acknowledged. But your Gate Bursts argument applies equally to Dark Pharaoh. At least King in Yellow has some kind of method for adding Doom and/or removing Elder Signs (Act Cards). It's not perfect, but it's there.

I find the KiY distribution of Gates to be geared more toward monster surges (and thus, the Terror Track). While gates are opening, the odds are much better of hitting an open gate than opening a "cold" location as those you mentioned. Of course, if one has analyzed the gate frequency and knows to close certain locations as quickly as possible, then one is using information the Investigators really aren't supposed to have...but that's a playing style argument that has no merit, and I apologize for bringing it up.

On the other hand, it sounds like you (and others) are not impressed with an expansion unless it has put your arm in a sling and pumped its knuckles into your kidneys a few times. Hard = Good; Easy = Bad. I just don't believe that that qualifies as Universal Criteria (which lowers my rank around here on any "hardcore" scale), but "fun" is in the eye of the beholder, especially in AH.

On a somewhat more global topic: Press Pass? Two cards in a deck of five individual game boxes? Really? Am I allowed to gripe how Join the Winning Team ruins Dunwich? Because it doesn't.

jgt7771 said:

In terms of lack of Gate Bursts, yes. Dark Pharaoh, on the other hand, has quite a number of Mythos cards that open a gate at the rare locations, so it actually speeds up the Doom Track rather than slowing it down as KiY's cards do.

I agree. The problem for me is that KiY seems to sacrifice any progress on the doom track in favor of monster surges to aid the Terror Track. Incidentally, I didn't get the information on gate frequency from the Internet; simple repeated playings clued me on that. Once you know (and after playing long enough there is virtually no way NOT to realize it) such information is awfully difficult not to act upon.

Ah, JGT, I fear that in trying to hang such a simplistic view on me you have erred. Didn't you notice me complaining about how the KiY items make it harder to get weapons, and slamming the Black Goat Herald for being much TOO hard? I don't want to play a game where it's impossible to win any more than I want to play a game that's an automatic walk-over. A reasonably difficult challenge, with the naturally accompanying excitement and suspense, is the key to my enjoyment of Arkham.

You're right, of course, that fun is in the eye of the beholder. For example, there are undoubtedly Arkham players out there who would think that a solo game in which Joe Diamond did nothing but gather Clues before shotgunning Quachil Uttaus to death would be a blast. For me it would be an unimitigated bore, not to mention that I loathe the idea of playing from the start with the intent to beat the AO in final combat rather than even trying to get six seals. To each his own. Since the intial poster, however, asked which expansion is "funner" and "adds more to the game", I'm simply providing an answer, from my point of view.

As for the Press Pass issue, it's not necessarily two cards in a deck of five individual boxes; use it with base Arkham and it's two cards in a very small deck of Common Items, which means one or both will come up fairly often. And yes, I really do think they're too powerful, especially coming in an expansion that slows the Doom Track to a crawl as it is.

Before anyone asks, no, I don't think Rex is too powerful, because he begins with a Curse that he can never roll to get rid of. That helps to balance things out, as do his not so great stats.

*shrug*You're allowed to gripe about whatever you want; it's a free Forum. Just expect that some people will disagree with you, as I do about certain aspects of KiY.

Solan said:

Egad! Fee Forum! Man, I hope they don't notice I'm behind on my dues . Would suck if Avi could get rid of me that way .

Thank goodness for the Edit button!

Dam said:

Oh no, your "disappearance" will be lingering and painful ;'D

Solan said:

Yeah, but I don't find it as powerful as Rex's ability. The press pass does require an exhaust, so it's only good for one extra clue per turn, where Luke could potentially gain two or more clues per round. For example: Reading the old journal to get four clues (total of 4), then moving to a location with a clue would net him another two clues (for a total of 6), and finally an encounter providing clues could provide him 2 or more clues (8+), and then another clue appearing on him during Mythos for two more clues (for a total of 10+ in one turn!). He also gained 4 extra clues from those shenanigans. I know it would be hard to pull off being that you'd have to have all the equipment, but it IS possible. Now a person with the press pass doing something similar would only gain around 7+ clues which granted is a lot, but not enough to seal two gates. That extra clue is NICE don't get me wrong, but comparing it to Luke's ability is like comparing Darke's Carnival to Mandy.

Rex not Luke. I think :') And I disagree. Mandy's ability is much better in comparison, although clearly you're right that Rex's ability is in some ways more powerful. However you're not looking at the downside (sometimes Rex has more clues than he needs and it'd be nice to give his ability to someone else for a while).

Avi_dreader said:

He is also more GOO-dependant I would think. Tsathoggua or Yibb-Tstll don't make Rex very happy? What's the ruling on Rex vs Dark Pharaoh Herald again?

Dam said:

He's probably permascrewed.

Q: Does Rex Murphy lose stamina for having his curse when the Dark Pharaoh is the herald?

A: Yes

What about investigators on the first turn having a curse (when they don't roll)?

Yes.

Ouch! Well, the Dark Pharaoh needs all the help it can get...

Tibs said:

Play DP with the difficulty level that starts everyone off cursed :'D

Sorry don't know why I typed Rex the first time and Luke the second.

And I think there's always downsides to most people's abilities. I just think saying the press pass is as good as Rex and therefore it's an overpowered item is not necessarily true.

johnwatersfan said:

Well I think it's overpowered, if not simply for the fact that it only costs $5! I mean, $7 or $8 would have been much better.

As for whether or not it's broken? Nah, not so much so. But you don't see two Healing Stones in the UI deck (unless you're Dam), so it probably would have been better if the Press Pass cost $7 or $8 and there was only one of them instead of two.

johnwatersfan said:

Just one of those bizzare brain malfunction moments. Blame the Migo!