Yaay, another thread when I ***** about something the Imperials don't have. But I think this one is actually something worth thinking about.

So, I was thinking about the way I run my imperial NPC-s in the Star Wars universe, and very rarely it was about the generic naziesque soldier who believes in the Empire they are serving, etc. Those characters are present, but usually as nameless, faceless masses. Important characters are different. They are corrupt, manipulating, sometimes inept, yadda yadda... they are CHARACTERS. And this is also something I observed when looking at other media. Comic book Phasma is an interesting character. There are agents , commanders and soldiers, who are selfish dicks, using their own style and philosophy to do their stuff. Thrawn and Vader are good examples of this. They don't fit the mold, and they are interesting for it.

Now then. This is completely missing from Imperials. We don't have ANY outliers in the imperial roster, mechanically speaking. You see, there are rebel ships that can equip illicit upgrades, because they are different than the main army. They are Smugglers and mandalorians, etc, that can use unconventional (for their faction) methods.
Ezra and Maul clearly represent a "dark side" mechanic for the rebels, not something that is usually their thing.

Scum has several "archetypes" within. They have mandalorians, who represent a very different style of ship than what is seen as "normal" for Scum. The fang fighters are MILITARY ships. They are not cluttered with subsystems, they are interceptor fighters. They are not the high quality, specially manufactured "luxury" fighters like the StarViper, or ultra modular ships like the Vaksai. They don't feel like "Scum", because... well they are not. They are military subfaction, different from the pirates and Hutts who use old, cheap, versatile ships, with dirty tricks.

Imperials don't have this. We don't have the commanders or pilots who use illicit goods... Booster blue (not yet in the game, but I think it will come eventually) is often used by Imperial Aces. Where is that flavor? Where are the countless "dirty" imperials who do something other than what is expected?

We just have the faceless "Something squadron pilots" and not enough characters from the ISB, Special Forces, Imperial Customs, or outlier characters who are DIFFERENT, EVEN THOUGH that is definitely something that exists and is somewhat common in the world.

For starters, I think they should

1) Errata/title fix/something the Firespray to allow them an illicit upgrade slot.

2) Something should be done with Vader's "TIE Advanced x1" ship name on his pilot card (unique ept, mod, or something).

3) Come up with a system for TIE's to make them feel more unique ("you may equip any number of TIE modifications" which could honestly be the fix for Vader if that's too powerful, etc).

Problem is, from a lore standpoint, the Empire was all about "bigger is better." Since we don't have ISD's, SSD's, or other huge ships the fighters seem (as they should be) bland and uninteresting.

I always thought better than average efficiency generics was pretty much the empires 'thing', Rebels and Scum have few outstanding generics ( I know someone is going to mention JM5k )

Also uniformity is kind of the point of the empire, it's a massive monolithic dictatorship, non conformity and independent thinking are frowned upon.

10 minutes ago, Vordyn said:

I always thought better than average efficiency generics was pretty much the empires 'thing', Rebels and Scum have few outstanding generics ( I know someone is going to mention JM5k )

I invite you to check out the Scurrg and TIE Aggressor. Same wave. Look at the generics. It is clearly not the case.

12 minutes ago, Vordyn said:

Also uniformity is kind of the point of the empire, it's a massive monolithic dictatorship, non conformity and independent thinking are frowned upon.

Yeah, but as I mentioned... those characters exist the canon and they are frequently used in other media.

I agree. That's why I want the Imperial Falcon so badly. Or the Corvus/Inferno TIE Fighters.

The Empire needs a major shake-up in this game. Maybe the next wave will have the next Jumpmaster or Miranda.

Yeah, With more uniform ships out of the way for Empire. I would like to see more...eclectic pilots and ships pop up in future releases.

Getting out a fix for Imperial Firesprays would help this situation out. @impspy's suggestion of errataing in the illicit upgrade to Imp Firesprays is a good start, but more would definitely be needed. You could even stick ISB agents as pilots, even as a generic.

there are more "Scum" types that could go cross faction like Nym did. I know I've been seeing a lot of requests for Dr. Aphra around here. She could provide some new tricks to add to the Imperial arsenal.

Getting into less typical Imperial ships like the Skipray Blastboat could open up some options as well, particularly if you use pilots like Mara Jade to fill out the roster. Likewise, pulling ships from a more desperate time like the Legends Imperial remnant (such as the Preybird) could also provide some variety.

Honestly, this has gotten thinking about bringing in Vader's J-Type 327 Nubian from the Darth Vader comic. He uses it when he's trying to do things behind the Empire's back.

OFFICERS.

That's where the flavor is, and we won't get them without shuttles. I made a list a while back, based on Decipher's old CCG. This doesn't even include new characters like Krennic, and there are plenty of Imperials (like Krennic and Kallus) that are at a low enough level to be involved in a game at the starfighter level (as opposed to the ISD bridge level). And despite that, a Grand Moff is in the game, so really there is no reason not to have any Imperial officer of any rank, like Admirals, floating around.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/263098-shuttle-stuffing/

It's actually against Imperial protocol to be unique and not conform to ranks. In regards to their fleet, the Empire goes with cheap and overwhelming numbers to maintain their rule of the galaxy.

Aces with cool abilities are probably as 'special' as you are going to get (no Imperial codes about excelling in combat... yet).

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

OFFICERS.

That's where the flavor is, and we won't get them without shuttles. I made a list a while back, based on Decipher's old CCG. This doesn't even include new characters like Krennic, and there are plenty of Imperials (like Krennic and Kallus) that are at a low enough level to be involved in a game at the starfighter level (as opposed to the ISD bridge level). And despite that, a Grand Moff is in the game, so really there is no reason not to have any Imperial officer of any rank, like Admirals, floating around.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/263098-shuttle-stuffing/

This is a good point. While he's not rocking the meta, the games I've played against Hux have been very interesting, providing new tactics and dynamics to Imps.

tl;dr? No just kidding, I think you make some good points, but I do not think that the stealing of unique upgrades is what will make Imperials great again. I think that the Imperials need a Imperial Only mod that fits EVERY imperial ship: it will get you a new type of upgrade slot: Military Tech. discuss on what it should be able to do further if you want... I am to lazy to come up with great examples ATM.

1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

Now then. This is completely missing from Imperials. We don't have ANY outliers in the imperial roster, mechanically speaking. You see, there are rebel ships that can equip illicit upgrades, because they are different than the main army. They are Smugglers and mandalorians, etc, that can use unconventional (for their faction) methods.

^Ok your right, I think that 1 ship in the whole Imperial fleet SHOULD get an illicit: The Firespray-31. Not via the Slave I title because then the scum ships get another double illicit ship (even though that would be the boost scum FS31 needs)

EDIT: I still am not a forestander for the Militairy/Imperial Astromech though...

20 minutes ago, Superstrength79 said:

It's actually against Imperial protocol to be unique and not conform to ranks. In regards to their fleet, the Empire goes with cheap and overwhelming numbers to maintain their rule of the galaxy.

Aces with cool abilities are probably as 'special' as you are going to get (no Imperial codes about excelling in combat... yet).

Even the clones had unique names and personalities. Grunts can be mindless and faceless; officers are not--they are cunning and ambitious.

It is also "Imperial protocol" to fly in overwhelming numbers. Not many TIE swarms seeing play, either.

I'd like to see something like "Doctrines" that allow you to place a card on your side of the table and have them affect all of your ships.

The guys who did the Supremacy X-Wing mod did something similar (Faction Ethos), but I really like it as an 'Imperial Only' thing. It would really help Imps out considering how many fewer faction specific cards they have, and would be fluffy considering Imps training and adherence to doctrine. Plus we could buff a few ships that never see play (*cough* swarms *cough*).

Here's a couple of ideas:

Space Superiority Doctrine (X Points): Your small base, unique ships with Pilot Skill > 7 gain the Boost action. Ships that already have the boost action on their bars may now perform a free boost action before they reveal their maneuver dials.

Swarm Doctrine (X Points): Whenever one of your generic, small base ships with total points cost < 20 is destroyed by an enemy attack, ALL other generic ships within R1 may take an immediate primary weapon attack upon the attacker if they are not stressed and the attacker is in arc at R1-2.

Escort Doctrine (X Points): All small based, friendly ships can now obstruct enemy attacks. Attacks obstructed in this way give a +2 Agility benefit instead of the usual +1.

These are just spitball ideas, not meant to be to be taken at face value (I have no idea if these would be balanced). This is just to illustrate what such a Doctrine card would look like.

5 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I'd like to see something like "Doctrines" that allow you to place a card on your side of the table and have them affect all of your ships.

The guys who did the Supremacy X-Wing mod did something similar (Faction Ethos), but I really like it as an 'Imperial Only' thing. It would really help Imps out considering how many fewer faction specific cards they have, and would be fluffy considering Imps training and adherence to doctrine. Plus we could buff a few ships that never see play (*cough* swarms *cough*).

Here's a couple of ideas:

Space Superiority Doctrine (X Points): Your small base, unique ships with Pilot Skill > 7 gain the Boost action. Ships that already have the boost action on their bars may now perform a free boost action before they reveal their maneuver dials.

Swarm Doctrine (X Points): Whenever one of your generic, small base ships with total points cost < 20 is destroyed by an enemy attack, ALL other generic ships within R1 may take an immediate primary weapon attack upon the attacker if they are not stressed and the attacker is in arc at R1-2.

Escort Doctrine (X Points): All small based, friendly ships can now obstruct enemy attacks. Attacks obstructed in this way give a +2 Agility benefit instead of the usual +1.

These are just spitball ideas, not meant to be to be taken at face value (I have no idea if these would be balanced). This is just to illustrate what such a Doctrine card would look like.

I had been considering a form of "Doctrine" machanic myself. It overlaps with some of my ideas of what a Squadron mechanic should be and I would prefer squadrons personally, but Doctrines are a solid idea and probably easier to implement.

2 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I'd like to see something like "Doctrines" that allow you to place a card on your side of the table and have them affect all of your ships.

The guys who did the Supremacy X-Wing mod did something similar (Faction Ethos), but I really like it as an 'Imperial Only' thing. It would really help Imps out considering how many fewer faction specific cards they have, and would be fluffy considering Imps training and adherence to doctrine. Plus we could buff a few ships that never see play (*cough* swarms *cough*).

Here's a couple of ideas:

Space Superiority Doctrine (X Points): Your small base, unique ships with Pilot Skill > 7 gain the Boost action. Ships that already have the boost action on their bars may now perform a free boost action before they reveal their maneuver dials.

Swarm Doctrine (X Points): Whenever one of your generic, small base ships with total points cost < 20 is destroyed by an enemy attack, ALL other generic ships within R1 may take an immediate primary weapon attack upon the attacker if they are not stressed and the attacker is in arc at R1-2.

Escort Doctrine (X Points): All small based, friendly ships can now obstruct enemy attacks. Attacks obstructed in this way give a +2 Agility benefit instead of the usual +1.

These are just spitball ideas, not meant to be to be taken at face value (I have no idea if these would be balanced). This is just to illustrate what such a Doctrine card would look like.

I think this was FFG thought with certain pilots like Howlrunner in the beginning, but the problem is that in a swarm, she was the first one taken out and then your swarm suffered greatly. This would definitely improve swarms, maybe add dice/dice result if there are 2+ allies in range 1-2.

What the Empire needs is more upgrades which reflect the Empire's technological superiority. And more upgrades of all types which are Imperial Only.

Really, the System slot should have always been the Empire's equivalent of the Illicit and Astromech slot. The faction's unique type of upgrade card, with maybe 1-2 exceptions in the other factions.

The Empire has a decent roster of crew, but sadly little which can make use of them. Crew like the Fleet Officer and Hux are good and in theory help the Empire's game plan, but they fall flat when you're forced to put them on a shuttle of some kind which sucks down 1/3 to 1/2 of your squad points. At which point the rest of your list has no teeth. Truthfully a shuttle with Hux or Fleet officer+some other support crew should be topping 1/4 of your list's points. Lambdas and Upsilon shuttles are paying way too many points for offensive capability they cannot leverage effectively. Yes, we all have the stories of a Lambda or Upsilon finishing something off, but overall they do not really contribute offensively and they are easily killed.

It would help a lot if the TIE Shuttle didn't have a point restriction, or just had one that excluded Palp. That's more in line with what an imperial crew carrier should cost.

49 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

What the Empire needs is more upgrades which reflect the Empire's technological superiority. And more upgrades of all types which are Imperial Only.

Really, the System slot should have always been the Empire's equivalent of the Illicit and Astromech slot. The faction's unique type of upgrade card, with maybe 1-2 exceptions in the other factions.

The Empire has a decent roster of crew, but sadly little which can make use of them. Crew like the Fleet Officer and Hux are good and in theory help the Empire's game plan, but they fall flat when you're forced to put them on a shuttle of some kind which sucks down 1/3 to 1/2 of your squad points. At which point the rest of your list has no teeth. Truthfully a shuttle with Hux or Fleet officer+some other support crew should be topping 1/4 of your list's points. Lambdas and Upsilon shuttles are paying way too many points for offensive capability they cannot leverage effectively. Yes, we all have the stories of a Lambda or Upsilon finishing something off, but overall they do not really contribute offensively and they are easily killed.

It would help a lot if the TIE Shuttle didn't have a point restriction, or just had one that excluded Palp. That's more in line with what an imperial crew carrier should cost.

Thematically, the TIE/sh was used by junior officers only, so the restriction makes sense.

OTOH, I agree with the assessment of a decent, large, 1 Attack (or even a 0 Attack but cannon slot if the player decides to arm it), low-cost, support ship that acts as a dedicated crew carrier with the crew making the ship worthwhile. Ya know, a (non-combat) shuttle.

Why would the Empire have illicit upgrades? They are the Law in the Galaxy.

18 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

OFFICERS.

That's where the flavor is, and we won't get them without shuttles. I made a list a while back, based on Decipher's old CCG. This doesn't even include new characters like Krennic, and there are plenty of Imperials (like Krennic and Kallus) that are at a low enough level to be involved in a game at the starfighter level (as opposed to the ISD bridge level). And despite that, a Grand Moff is in the game, so really there is no reason not to have any Imperial officer of any rank, like Admirals, floating around.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/263098-shuttle-stuffing/

**** yes! Officers also provide the most logical entry point for future swarm buffs.

An exasperated commander herding incompetent academy pilots that only buffs low PS Ties would be hillarious.

A powerful officer you can only equip if you have 5 or more ships in your squad would be great too.

**** even a unique set of EPTs which you can only equip if there is an officer onboard would open up the field.

point is I agree with you 100%

Maybe what empire needs in terms of "distinct and different pilot flavour" are different "Spec Ops" in different ways. In films, we, basically seen this kind of Imperials:

-Regular troopers (Not very represented in X Wing because obvious reasons, go to Legion or Imperial Assault to see troopers).

-Pilots (Represented in X Wing as generics)

-Officers (Represented in X Wing as Crew)

-Anti-Heroes (represented as Aces, like Kylo, Vader or the Inquisitor).

-Black Ops (The Black soldiers of Rogue One). THIS is the line in order to make a different thing. Basically, the "flavour" of rebels is that they are black ops with por resources. Every Special Operations army looks different and cool. Also, Imperials are the only army with regular Invisibility. Maybe is time to another Stealth ship. I am thinking in Shadow Troopers. They are very cool. In X Wing, ships as Tie Reaper, Chiss Clawcraft, are visually as different and could fit in those different mechanics as Star viper looks a luxury ship. Hey, and Gunboat seems amazing.

1 hour ago, Kingsguard said:

Why would the Empire have illicit upgrades? They are the Law in the Galaxy.

And officers of the law never break it. It is known.

19 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

And officers of the law never break it. It is known.

The Empire is pretty much textbook Lawful Evil. It far more flavorful that they stay away from the tools used by the "scum" of the galaxy.

1 minute ago, Kingsguard said:

The Empire is pretty much textbook Lawful Evil. It far more flavorful that they stay away from the tools used by the "scum" of the galaxy.

But... They don't?

Like literally the first time we got introduced to the bounty hunters, they were working for the empire.

We have this image of the empire, but it is not based on anything. The empire is as dirty as they get.

It was Vader's call to use bounty hunters though. The officer on the ship literally said he was against the idea.

As I have said in my original post, there are examples of dirty imperials (just like there are examples of different flavored rebels and scum) in various star wars media. Heck, the first order makes weapon deals with them. The Empire deals with the Hutts regularly.