Do you see the part about having to discard Suggestion when it has no charges remaining? I don't either. This means that you can use its first effect as much as you want, as there is no requirement to have a charge remaining to activate that effect. If this is intentional then Suggestion is crazy good, if it isn't then the card is busted already.

Does strikes me as an oversight. They need to modify the action to cost a charge to activate and receive a charge if you succeed by 2. While that would still be subject to abuse/combo via double or nothing that would allow you to keep the spell with out charges but unable to operate it without said charges

Fof 4 xp it should be crazy good. I could see it being an intentional omission.

1 minute ago, BD Flory said:

Fof 4 xp it should be crazy good. I could see it being an intentional omission.

But then why have charges at all?

Just now, ricedwlit said:

But then why have charges at all?

The secondary ability to cancel attacks can't be used if you have no charges.

Seems like definitely a question that should be asked directly to FFG

2 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Do you see the part about having to discard Suggestion when it has no charges remaining? I don't either. This means that you can use its first effect as much as you want, as there is no requirement to have a charge remaining to activate that effect. If this is intentional then Suggestion is crazy good, if it isn't then the card is busted already.

Although it can only be used once per turn because it exhausts the card, which may be why they worded it that way. If you could use it multiple times per turn(like other spells) then I agree it would be broken.

hm, fair point. First time anyone has noticed as far as I'm aware. Shame to have this card likely be instant-errata'd since it's already probably gone to the printer... but probably that is what will happen. I sort of doubt it's intentional. We will see what happens.

1 hour ago, BD Flory said:

The secondary ability to cancel attacks can't be used if you have no charges.

Good point - missed that. Will be interested to see if this was intentional or not.

If there are no charges one can't pay the potential cost for the first ability and thus can't use the first exhaust ability. At least I interprete it like that and would play it that way.

It's not a cost though. It's a consequence of the test. It's not as though you can't use liquid courage even if the target can't discard a card if they fail the skill test. Sometimes you simply can't lose what you don't have. There are even instances of this kind of thing in encounter cards.

This card doesn't seem broken. Its a strong evade once per turn.

13 hours ago, BD Flory said:

The secondary ability to cancel attacks can't be used if you have no charges.

Yes, I think it is written as intended. Once it's in play, you always have the evade ability, once per turn. You also get a limited number Dodges, which can be depleted by the first ability. The charges are strictly for the second ability.

Compare to Cheap Shot, which is level 0 (one time event) and Lockpicks, which is level 1 (multiple, potentially unlimited uses, constrained by margin of successes. Once per turn). This is level 4 (unlimited uses, once per turn, plus a limited secondary ability). That doesn't seem at all out of line with the others.

28 minutes ago, CSerpent said:

Yes, I think it is written as intended. Once it's in play, you always have the evade ability, once per turn. You also get a limited number Dodges, which can be depleted by the first ability. The charges are strictly for the second ability.

Compare to Cheap Shot, which is level 0 (one time event) and Lockpicks, which is level 1 (multiple, potentially unlimited uses, constrained by margin of successes. Once per turn). This is level 4 (unlimited uses, once per turn, plus a limited secondary ability). That doesn't seem at all out of line with the others.

Pretty sure it's intentional and continuing the powerful once per turn 'thing' for rogues. Although Lockpicks does have charges, it is a lvl 1 not 4. Pretty hefty price to pay and even heavier if you are going to include 2.

These are my thoughts.

The three non-elite dodges are pretty nice, but dodges have limited utility compared to evades. I find the best use for them is engage an enemy at the end of your turn to pull off another investigator and then dodge the attack. I find it also has uses versus boss monsters, but this evade doesn't help against elite. Dodges generally delay having to evade or kill the monster, but you need to pay the piper eventually (kill or evade them). That being said, they are basically +3-6 Health and Horror and that's not nothing.

Skids and Jenny can get decent usage with this, both evading on a 6. It is still 4-8 of their XP.

Sefina can really rock this at an 8. This is assuming you don't use to many arcane slots, which is doable with her. I think she is the biggest winner here.

Marie (7) and Akachi (8) will struggle using this since they use a lot of arcane slots. While this is very good with 3 or 4 dodges, I have to imagine a Lvl 3 Shrivelling will get the job done better most of the time and for less XP. Plus we have l0 Mists of R'lyeh coming soon which normally helps evasion abilities.

I also mostly play 3-4 player, this can be very different in a single player game.

I really do love this in theory on Sefina. The issue, obviously, is that it's expensive and lets you 'get better' at something you are already pretty good at. The benefit here is that you can search your draw deck for it using Arcane Initiate, as it is a spell. If you're willing to take the risk, this means you can basically weed out any other events or other cards that Sefina would use as evades (blinding light, bind monster, etc) which might let you throw a few more events in your deck, which Sefina loves.

With a Lockpick and a Suggestion, Sefina becomes even more versatile than she is. I still like suggestion on other mystics who can take it like Marie and Akachi just because of their low agility values. The interesting thing here is that a lot of mystics can't take this card, while many rogues can. I'm not sure why a rogue would need this in most cases. And rogues that might be coming who sacrifice agility for combat (a la Mike McGlenn theoretically would) probably would not need an evade, but might pair with Watch This! for a decent resource gain.

It's unfortunate that it costs so much xp, because it greatly limits which investigators have access to it, and it become debatable if it would be useful on some of them for that cost.

The first ability is no more broken than lockpick. If you fail the goal, at forth by the card, you lose a use token. You do have to exhaust the card, limiting the ability to once per turn. It requires use of an action to use. The reactionary ability requires the spending of a charge. Once all charges are used up, it remains in play, and takes up a spell slot. Like the weapons requiring ammo, once the charges are gone, the card is useless. This is not broken.

22 minutes ago, Turtlefan2082 said:

The first ability is no more broken than lockpick. If you fail the goal, at forth by the card, you lose a use token. You do have to exhaust the card, limiting the ability to once per turn. It requires use of an action to use. The reactionary ability requires the spending of a charge. Once all charges are used up, it remains in play, and takes up a spell slot. Like the weapons requiring ammo, once the charges are gone, the card is useless. This is not broken.

That's not correct. You can use the Evade as long as the card is in play. Paying a penalty is not the same as paying a cost. If you have to pay a penalty but don't have the means, and there is not an alternative penalty you can choose, you get off easy.

The question is whether that was the intent. I believe it is, given that a level 4 card ought to be considerably more powerful than a level 1 one.

The penalty isn't payed from resources but from charges. Just like if you do not meet the criteria for lockpick, you lose 1 supply use. As far as evasion is concerned, you are right, you can evade per action, but you only get the will power bonus once per turn at most as of right now. I have imagine this card will be addressed I'm the next errata.

3 hours ago, Turtlefan2082 said:

The penalty isn't payed from resources but from charges. Just like if you do not meet the criteria for lockpick, you lose 1 supply use. As far as evasion is concerned, you are right, you can evade per action, but you only get the will power bonus once per turn at most as of right now. I have imagine this card will be addressed I'm the next errata.

I don't believe I mentioned resources. It's the same for any penalty. If you're told to discard three cards from your hand because you failed a test but you don't have any, then nothing happens. That's different from a cost for an effect. Those must be paid in full or you can't trigger the effect.

The charges on this card are a cost paid for the card's dodge action. But you can also lose charges as a penalty for not beating an Evade skill test with the card by at least two. If you use the Evade and don't beat it by two, and there are no charges, then nothing additional happens.

Expecting it to work like Lockpick is a mistake because it's three levels more powerful than Lockpick.

32 minutes ago, CSerpent said:

Expecting it to work like Lockpick is a mistake because it's three levels more powerful than Lockpick.

This is really the main point some keep ignoring. Level 4 cards are powerful, generally class-locked effects.

Up to 3 dodges and an indefinite once per turn giant evade (which, remember, does not by itself actually take anything off the board), really isn't unreasonable.

There are level 0 cards that give you +1 to an ability on as many tests as you can muster actions, and give other benefits besides. A card that gives a +3 or +4 to a single test in a turn, even when it's out of uses, is petty on-curve at 4xp. Except for the fact that it's spell-traited, I might even suggest it isn't good enough (but spell gives it a lot of powerful interactions).

Something else to consider: It's a rogue card granting evade bonuses. To some degree, it's a hat on a hat. It would be much more remarkable in, say, seeker.

On 2/8/2018 at 3:18 AM, BD Flory said:

Something else to consider: It's a rogue card granting evade bonuses. To some degree, it's a hat on a hat. It would be much more remarkable in, say, seeker.

Man I can't wait for 'Hat on a Hat', the follow-up card to Devil's Luck. That'll be rad.

Isnt this card just split into two abilities?

The ability to evade using Willpower as a boost (Infinite).

The ability to negate attacks (limited).

And then bad luck and careless use of the infinite ability may hamper use of the second one?

32 minutes ago, tsuruki said:

Isnt this card just split into two abilities?

The ability to evade using Willpower as a boost (Infinite).

The ability to negate attacks (limited).

And then bad luck and careless use of the infinite ability may hamper use of the second one?

You got it. HolySorceror thinks that is broken. Other people have different opinions.

Consider Stealth as well... That gives you a +2 skill (well, better, as it's -2 difficulty) limited effect evade for fewer resources, no use of a slot, and no experience. This gives you a +2 to +4 evade and up to 3 bonus dodges for (a lot) more investment. I don't think that's unreasonable at all?