So thought there would be interesting to gather some experience with what tray sizes and upgrades players use for their Daquan units. And combinations that players is curious about. To clarify it not supposed to be entire list's just some useful or curious pusle pieces to inspire list building.

Oathsworn Cavalry

I have a preference to putting windrune on these units as i feel they need the reform and the added mobility gives them a good chance for flanking attacks.

Oathsworn Cavalry [20] 2x1
Wind Rune [6]
Total Unit Cost: 26

Would like to hear if anyone have gone all out with a Cavalry - star? with or without Hawthorne... a fully specked with Hawthorne would take approximatly half of ones points, i doubt that it's viable but maybe someone can try, or have tried?

Oathsworn Cavalry [68] 3x3
Lord Hawthorne (C) [22]
Wind Rune [6]
Raven Tabards [2]
Flank Guards [5]
Total Unit Cost: 103

or when scouts hit the shelves, try out the forged in battle upgrade on a big block. Seems the forged in battle upgrade can be valuable on a big unit like this.

Oathsworn Cavalry [68] 3x3
Forged In Battle [4]
Wind Rune [6]
Raven Tabards [2]
Moment of Inspiration [5]
Total Unit Cost: 85

Outland Scouts

At first i was a bit luke warm when i saw them announced, but after thinking that they could provide some flexibility i have warmed up a bit. A build i would like to test is one with Kari in a four or six tray configuration. As Kari supposedly comes from their ranks it be thematic and two blue dice would help out with the surge on Kari's upgrade.

Outland Scouts [32] 2x2
Kari Wraithstalker [18]
Total Unit Cost: 50

Heavy Crossbowmen

The one combination that comes to mind is the three by one with tempered steel and rank discipline. High damage and small cost for ranged three threat.

Heavy Crossbowmen [27] 3x1
Tempered Steel [3]
Rank Discipline [4]
Total Unit Cost: 34

Rune Golems

The black sheep of the sige unit's, but with potensial damage second to none. I have honestly wondered how to get the best use out of it. One idea that i liked was too take the blocking and push it a bit further with a two by one with visored helmets. That's five defense before they hit back with three - four brutal. Maybe do the same with the re-configure ability to Hawthorne?

Rune Golems [28] 2x1
Visored Helms [7]
Total Unit Cost: 35

Spearmen

The bread and butter unit with uses ranging from the spear - stars to support and blockers. The one configuration i like to use is three by two with shield wall and lance corporal.

Spearmen [40] 3x2
Lance Corporal [6]
Shield Wall [5]
Total Unit Cost: 51

Kari Wraithstalker

A strong unit in of it self, be it by shooting on initiative two or throwing out damage with her surge ability. If i where to add a shooter to my army i'm not sure if i would take a three by one crossbow or a bare Kari. As for pure shooting the crossbow's is probably stronger, but for her early initiatives and surge ability she is probably more diverse in what she can do. With fortunas dice she can be absolutely lethal. Not to mention that she brings the option to bring some elven allies.

Kari Wraithstalker [32] 1x1
Fortunas Dice [6]
Total Unit Cost: 38

Lord Hawthorne

Tankthorne, Inspirithorne, kari thorne. yes he is versatile, can be hard to deal with barring some gauntlet and mortal wounds. As a single unit i think he is great, but as a upgrade he is too expensive for a figure upgrade and a white dice is good i guess but for seventeen points more than moment of inspiration i dont think he is viable unless you manage to take advantage of the added melee attacks he can do if is engaged with multiple units. i like him without upgrades or with might of daquan.

Lord Hawthorne [34] 1x1
Might of Daqan [4]
Total Unit Cost: 38

Looking forward to see what units and upgrades people have tried and ideas we as a community can make for the units. Protect the baronies and tell us what formations you use to crush the foul and dishonest opponents of Daquan.

I think you are mostly spot on with your assessment.

Spearmen: agreed 3x2 with Lance and Shield I think is the most efficient and versatile way to run them.

Crossbowmen: same, though sometimes drop TS for points.

Kari: Agreed best way to run her, though I’m having trouble always having the points for the dice. Keep her unique empty.

Hawthorne: I run him slick for points, use his inspiration, his formations, and charge already engaged units.

Rune Golems: Bad overall, can kind of block, not great, tried a 2x1 with helms for a game, don’t think it was worth it. Just swapped out a golem for a 2x1 of Cav in my second Daqan army, no regrets.

Scouts: again nailed it, think the 2x2 with Kari will be best, if you can find another 5pts for MoI it’ll be even better, provided you having the rallying support.

Cav: never tried the 3x3. 3x2 with the Hawthorne reform has been my sweet spot. Again I run them slick for points, and I think they are efficient enough in that size to punch above their weight class.

Agreed I think forged in battle could be great on them, but I think it will be most useful on the 3x2: engage early, get your reroll by the time you’ve lost your back rank, get your threat by the time you start losing front ranks, punch like a 3x2 all game.

havent tried the 2x1 with wind rune, will have to give it a shot. Bigger fan of rank discipline for consistency and 2pts cheaper.

recurring theme for me: minimal upgrades, take what you NEED, get more/bigger units out there otherwise.

Except possibly the Outland Scouts you mentioned, I don't think either hero is worthy as an upgrade, Hawthorne especially. Being engaged with more than one enemy is hard to do, and if you are that could be a bad spot to stay in.

I'd love to put him in a unit of cavalry if he just added a white die for a reasonable price like Alianna does.

15 minutes ago, Daverman said:

Except possibly the Outland Scouts you mentioned, I don't think either hero is worthy as an upgrade, Hawthorne especially. Being engaged with more than one enemy is hard to do, and if you are that could be a bad spot to stay in.

I'd love to put him in a unit of cavalry if he just added a white die for a reasonable price like Alianna does.

Isn't he more of a control piece in that context? Double teaming heroes brings them down quick. Being able to hit multiples makes him a less likely target to be double teamed.

Worth mentioning:

• 4 x 1 Oathsworn with Rank Discipline and whatever else. Requires Hawthorne, loses threat fast, has trouble with terrain, but the damage is oh so sweet.
• I'm looking forward to a minimalist 2 x 1 of Scouts for disruption purposes. They're not much use in combat, but if they can snag a ranged unit they'll do great work. Even just forcing the opponent not to leave things exposed could be great.
• 3 x 2 Crossbows is pricey, but gets the valuable Champion slot. Good platform for a Wind Rune as well.
• 2 x 1 Crossbows with Piercing Strike is quite efficient at dealing wounds to targets with 3 Defense, if by chance you're being plagued by Carrion Lancers and Death Knights.
• 2 x 1 (or 1 x 2) Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen is a handy little support unit. Keep upgrades ready, guard a flank, threaten terrain, plenty of use.
• I have found Kari in a unit of Spearmen to be fairly effective. Her Surge ability is really excellent, and she's so fragile on her own. Since it doesn't scale with Threat, a small unit is probably best - but as above, Scouts will probably be best in this role.

I just tried the Oathsworn as a 3x2 (using hawthorne's reform ability) I threw on MOI and mastercrafted weapons.

That's a 3 threat unit and with the quick attack at 3, I was often armor 3. The threat lasts for much longer than the normal configuration with colum tactics, and is still pretty maneuverable compared to the 4x1.

Not completely sold on mastercrafted (though it definitely paid on one roll) since you have to run Hawthorne, MOI was always available.

Tried a Hawthorne upgrade in a spearstar once. Now granted the spearstar didn’t get the engagement advantage they wanted, had to march just short of the enemy, but LSS the spearstar was blighted to uselessness and then chipped away at by an Ardus and 3x2 CI archers. Hawthorne eventually came into play but it was too late at that point. Really just turned me off from daqan spearstars period as too high risk/high reward, and eats up so many points that you’re a one trick pony.

3x2 Cav in my opinion only need MoI, and even only if you can really spare the points. MCW isn’t worth it, and Tempered steel is great but you usually can only sustain either MoI or TS.

Not sold on the 4x1 Cav. Too easy to limit with terrain, needs wind Rune to effectively maneuver at all, and is too wide to avoid missile damage and not bleed threat.

also anxious to try 2 2x1 scouts as disrupters/flankers. Still think the 2x2 with Kari will be better overall, but also different strategies.

The 4x1 Cavalry with Wind Rune, Raven Tabards and Rank Discipline is a really solid unit. Wind rune can really help you get that alpha strike it so desperately needs.

Personally, I really like Rune Golems, but I only ever run them 1x1. They're great blockers, and they can do a ton of damage. I actually luckily rolled 15 damage on a flank last game with one of them (3 red dice, threat-3 with 2 blue runes)

Another thing worth trying out that @TallTonyB showed me, is running Kari with Heartseeker. You place her behind a big block of terrain and have her pick people off. If someone enters that terrain, you engage and start throwing knives.

OK, answer me this. Why is Lance CPL better than the Citadel Weapons Master? Other than the higher armor value, I'm not seeing the benefit of making modifiers white except making the hit white with the 3 Init attack... That's better than an additional red die?

1 hour ago, coldsteel said:

OK, answer me this. Why is Lance CPL better than the Citadel Weapons Master? Other than the higher armor value, I'm not seeing the benefit of making modifiers white except making the hit white with the 3 Init attack... That's better than an additional red die?

I think the biggest drawback to the Lance Corporal is the requirement to exhaust it. If you have Hawthorne in your army anyway, you can readily refresh the card, making it easy to, for example:

1. Attack at initiative 3 and add a hit (which is like a red die that never blanks out, but also never does more than one hit);
2. Attack at initiative 3 and add +1 defense to your unit;
3. Make your initiative-8, 4-speed march into a charge.

I think those are pretty enticing options - and 'options' is the reason you would go with Lance Corporal. But if you have no reliable way to ready exhausted cards, then Citadel Weapons Master wins I think.

1 hour ago, coldsteel said:

OK, answer me this. Why is Lance CPL better than the Citadel Weapons Master? Other than the higher armor value, I'm not seeing the benefit of making modifiers white except making the hit white with the 3 Init attack... That's better than an additional red die?

For damage alone, the Weapons Master is definitely better, but consider this: a unit of Spearmen with CWM rolls RRB; a unit of Oathsworn rolls RRB. For pure offense, the Oathsworn are cheaper, and can't lose their second red die to a random arrow. Now, the Front Line Rune Golem really bears talking about, because when your threat is 4-5 each additional die starts being really valuable. That's why the CWM is such a staple in the Spearstar.

Outside of that loadout though, what do you want your Spearmen to DO? Compared to Oathsworn, they do the following pretty well:

• Maneuver around tight spaces
• Survive damage
• Carry infantry command figures

The Lance Corporal is flexible, more than anything. The three things Parakitor outlines above are all quite strong, and he enables them. Can even let them shift charge like the Latari!

Plus, going from 3 to 4 defense is actually a pretty big deal, because their +1 defense modifier then puts him at 5, requiring three hits from a 2-threat unit. That tends to be much harder to snipe out.

Everything that @Parakitor and @Bhelliom said for Lance Corporal.

Me for instance, I primarily run this army:

Kari w/ wraithstep

Hawthorne

3x2 Cav

4x1 Archers w/ CQT and TS

3x2 Spearmen w/ LC and SW

(Will try dropping shield wall and wraithstep to try FDice on Kari, have done it before, still not convinced it’s worth it over SW especially)

Kari snipes and hunts, Hawthorne supports, Cav are my hammer damage dealers, archers provide strong supporting damage to whatever target needs it the most.

The LC/SW spearman are my flex unit, and Lance is what really allows that to happen for all the reasons the previous posts mention, but that versatility is what makes it better than just taking another 3x2 Cav or even CWM.

Conversely in my secondary Daqan army I use two mirrored 2x2 spearmen with CWM’s. This helps make up for dropping from threat 3 to threat 2, and they can mutually support each other.

I use Lance Corporal in my army. In The last game I played versus a Latari player, my spearmen resisted a charge from Aliana with Ambush Predator and a Leonx unit with only 4 loses thanks to him. What I like the most about LC and SW is the posibility of making spearmen have 4 defense. He makes it a very tough unit. And he makes them very versatile and unpredictable which in this game is very valuable.

17 hours ago, jcshep19 said:

Kari w/ wraithstep

Hawthorne

3x2 Cav

4x1 Archers w/ CQT and TS

3x2 Spearmen w/ LC and SW

(Will try dropping shield wall and wraithstep to try FDice on Kari, have done it before, still not convinced it’s worth it over SW especially)

Kari snipes and hunts, Hawthorne supports, Cav are my hammer damage dealers, archers provide strong supporting damage to whatever target needs it the most.

The LC/SW spearman are my flex unit, and Lance is what really allows that to happen for all the reasons the previous posts mention, but that versatility is what makes it better than just taking another 3x2 Cav or even CWM.

Conversely in my secondary Daqan army I use two mirrored 2x2 spearmen with CWM’s. This helps make up for dropping from threat 3 to threat 2, and they can mutually support each other.

I really can't advocate for Fortuna's Dice on Kari strongly enough. With her reroll she does 1.69 hits on average, where with Dice it's MINIMUM 2, with better than a 75% chance of 3. That's pretty serious output! Add in the 100% reliable Accuracy and she is just such an incredible ranged platform. Also, I wish Latari Training were cheaper, because it's actually pretty good. There have been games that I haven't used it because getting closer would get her killed, but sometimes it lets you pop in and out of terrain for free and it's basically works out to extra turns of shooting.

For Hawthorne, even if you can't afford the full thorns build, I really strongly endorse Might of Daqan. Going from Defense 4 to 5 (I'm assuming the +1Def modifier here) is pretty huge - threat 2 suddenly needs 3 hits to even scratch him, threat 3 needs 4 instead of 3 hits to do two wounds, and threat 4 needs an extra hit to do what they would have done before. It's an incredible durability increase, letting him stall out a unit way more effectively. Shield of Margath is of course a great addition, but points are scarce.

Speaking of points being scarce, have you considered dropping those Spearmen to a 2x2? It makes Shield Wall a pretty bad investment, but my experience taking it on 3x2's has often been that I get whittled down a bit by ranged and by the time it would be really effective I'm in combat with larger units anyway. Going to 2x2 makes it a more dedicated defensive unit, but assuming it's going +1 defense on most turns it can take a ton of punishment. Spearmen with one reroll do 1.78 average hits, so assuming they get to attack 4 times in a game, the 3x2 will only do 7.12 more damage over the course of the game. Maybe round it up to 10 if we assume you get a couple turns of the Lance Corporal dialing a hit at 3. Obviously it won't be right for every list, but it's something to consider.

Why 2x2 Spears + CWM over 2x2 Oathsworn? Same offense, cheaper, "different" dial. I think the Cav come out way ahead in that comparison. For that matter, I'd rather take 3x2 Spears naked over 2x2 + CWM - slightly less average damage (5.34 vs 5.62) and costs 2 more points, but way more bodies and can't be sniped out.

Well this was supposed to be a short little response but here we are.

@Athelin how are you getting to 4 Defense? 3 is the best I can manage.

45 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:

@Athelin how are you getting to 4 Defense? 3 is the best I can manage.

Sorry, somehow I add +1 defense from LC and +1 more from second dial. ?

Thanks for the info, gang!

On 08/02/2018 at 11:02 PM, Parakitor said:

I think the biggest drawback to the Lance Corporal is the requirement to exhaust it. If you have Hawthorne in your army anyway, you can readily refresh the card, making it easy to, for example:

1. Attack at initiative 3 and add a hit (which is like a red die that never blanks out, but also never does more than one hit);
2. Attack at initiative 3 and add +1 defense to your unit;
3. Make your initiative-8, 4-speed march into a charge.

I think those are pretty enticing options - and 'options' is the reason you would go with Lance Corporal. But if you have no reliable way to ready exhausted cards, then Citadel Weapons Master wins I think.

Add in trumpets for a 4 speed turning charge. Which doesn’t exist so.... doesn’t work. But it’s a great idea in principle ?

5 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

Speaking of points being scarce, have you considered dropping those Spearmen to a 2x2?

Definitely see where you’re coming from here, but my reasons are largely: want an additionally 3 threat unit With versatility to defense up if necessary. As a 2x2 I feel they’ll be easier to ignore. I usually end up running Lance every turn, and proc shield wall only once, maybe twice a match if I have an extra inspiration, so that let’s me run them much more offensively, 4 March charges, 3 init + hit melee, etc. if I was going to cut points I could see giving the 4x1 Cav a shot? Since I run them slick anyway, no reduced upgrade output, I’m just concerned about bleeding threat and being boxed out by terrain to 1 approach.

5 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

Why 2x2 Spears + CWM over 2x2 Oathsworn?

Agreed that would be better, but my secondary army is limited by the remainder of my Daqan collection. I want to be able to run two Daqan armies independent of one another in the event that I’m showing the game to someone who’s not crazy about the whole fantasy aspect and just wants a more traditional medieval battle.

that list is :

Kari w/ Dice

2x2 Spearmen w/ CWM, TS, and Rally

2x2 Spearmen w/ CWM, TS, and Rally

3x1 Crossbowmen with Rank

2x1 Cav with Rank

1x Rule Golem blocker

Let's talk about ranged units and blockers. 3x1 Crossbows are extremely efficient damage dealers if they're allowed to gets shots off, so they're worth protecting, but how best to do it? The list of options, as I see it:

• Hawthorne - With Might of Daqan he's a fearsome defender, and as a single tray he's not likely to suffer much from morale tests when the Crossbows shoot his target. He's a lot of points, but I consider most of that cost spent on a batch of Inspiration tokens and tray reconfiguration.
• Single Rune Golem - It's cheap, it's a single tray, it's durable*. Can cause a bit of a traffic jam because there's no guarantee it will be able to move at all until initiative 7. How long will they last? Well, it takes 8 damage to pop one, or 10 if it braces for impact, which is pretty tough for all but the beefiest of melee units to manage... but mortal strikes ruin their day real quick. In a perfect world you'd take the charge then get a stun off next turn, ruining the enemy's chance to charge your Crossbows the following turn, but we do not live in a perfect world.
• 2x1 Rune Golems - A bit harder to see around, 65% more expensive, all but guarantees the defensive strategy above, might even get to make a melee attack once in a while!
• 2x1 Spearmen - Nice and cheap, has an Equipment and Musician slot available in case there's something you want to take, and soaks up 16 damage before it disappears. Almost worthless offensively.
• 2x1 Spearmen AND single Rune Golem - We're getting a bit crazy here, but if we can use the Crossbows to force the enemy to engage, have the Spearmen soak the charge, and then have the Golem charge a flank, that would be pretty cool. I plan to test this module.

What are your experiences? What do you imagine being the biggest headache to deal with?

1 hour ago, Bhelliom said:

Let's talk about ranged units and blockers. 3x1 Crossbows are extremely efficient damage dealers if they're allowed to gets shots off, so they're worth protecting, but how best to do it? The list of options, as I see it:

• Hawthorne - With Might of Daqan he's a fearsome defender, and as a single tray he's not likely to suffer much from morale tests when the Crossbows shoot his target. He's a lot of points, but I consider most of that cost spent on a batch of Inspiration tokens and tray reconfiguration.
• Single Rune Golem - It's cheap, it's a single tray, it's durable*. Can cause a bit of a traffic jam because there's no guarantee it will be able to move at all until initiative 7. How long will they last? Well, it takes 8 damage to pop one, or 10 if it braces for impact, which is pretty tough for all but the beefiest of melee units to manage... but mortal strikes ruin their day real quick. In a perfect world you'd take the charge then get a stun off next turn, ruining the enemy's chance to charge your Crossbows the following turn, but we do not live in a perfect world.
• 2x1 Rune Golems - A bit harder to see around, 65% more expensive, all but guarantees the defensive strategy above, might even get to make a melee attack once in a while!
• 2x1 Spearmen - Nice and cheap, has an Equipment and Musician slot available in case there's something you want to take, and soaks up 16 damage before it disappears. Almost worthless offensively.
• 2x1 Spearmen AND single Rune Golem - We're getting a bit crazy here, but if we can use the Crossbows to force the enemy to engage, have the Spearmen soak the charge, and then have the Golem charge a flank, that would be pretty cool. I plan to test this module.

What are your experiences? What do you imagine being the biggest headache to deal with?

I've been using single tray Rune Golems recently and they work well. I especially like reforming them at a bit of an angle once they're out there to turn the incoming units on their charge (makes them easy to counter-charge then). I am having some other thoughts about going 2x1 however. Like maybe it's worth doing a 2x1 RG with Visored Helms to be a pretty effective roadblock (Brooks did this in the FFG store championship this weekend). You could also Wind Rune them to ensure they move early enough as well with their 6 armor up. You could even stack them 1x2 them with Hawthorne to get them the rerolls they need for their 2-3 threat and have less of a footprint blocking LOS for the xbows.

Something that's worth mentioning is Kari's ability to port in Latari infantry. Darnati are... weird, but do have an interesting dial for short-ranged maneuvering. A 2x1 would actually make a pretty sweet little flanker, and their ability to shift charge with or without a turn gives them a solid circle of threat projection.

MORE interesting however are the archers! For one thing, their dial is Good with a capital G because of that initiative 8 shift-shift. Staring down some cav that are just out of range and not sure if they're gonna try to get cute and close after your opportunity to shoot? This lets you scoot back if they try it, or scoot forward into range. Very flexible. And of course if you take both Kari and Hawthorne you can get a 4x1 of them, which with Tempered Steel reliably puts out 8-12 damage per volley. It's extremely effective, and only 33 points. Give it a try, I think you'll like it.

Hawthorne kinda breaks the fundamental math of the game, doesn't he?

2 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

Something that's worth mentioning is Kari's ability to port in Latari infantry. Darnati are... weird, but do have an interesting dial for short-ranged maneuvering. A 2x1 would actually make a pretty sweet little flanker, and their ability to shift charge with or without a turn gives them a solid circle of threat projection.

MORE interesting however are the archers! For one thing, their dial is Good with a capital G because of that initiative 8 shift-shift. Staring down some cav that are just out of range and not sure if they're gonna try to get cute and close after your opportunity to shoot? This lets you scoot back if they try it, or scoot forward into range. Very flexible. And of course if you take both Kari and Hawthorne you can get a 4x1 of them, which with Tempered Steel reliably puts out 8-12 damage per volley. It's extremely effective, and only 33 points. Give it a try, I think you'll like it.

Hawthorne kinda breaks the fundamental math of the game, doesn't he?

That has been my list for awhile now, Karithorne. I've been constantly tweaking and shifting things around. It *is* a good list.

As somebody who really digs 3-tray cats, it really surprises me how many people like or want to like reforming 4-tray Oathsworn with Hawthorne, but lament how burned it gets by terrain.

Has nobody tried equipping column tactics and reforming to four deep with Hawthorne? Sure you don't get Rank Discipline, but you don't have to sweat getting denied access to areas by terrain placement, and you're losing threat just as fast as you would in four wide.

On 23/02/2018 at 5:33 PM, kaffis said:

As somebody who really digs 3-tray cats, it really surprises me how many people like or want to like reforming 4-tray Oathsworn with Hawthorne, but lament how burned it gets by terrain.

Has nobody tried equipping column tactics and reforming to four deep with Hawthorne? Sure you don't get Rank Discipline, but you don't have to sweat getting denied access to areas by terrain placement, and you're losing threat just as fast as you would in four wide.

I was thinking about this just the other day actually, especially getting two units to charge the same target. Trouble is in most of the deployments they have to start at an angle, and they're really quite bad at coming about. Imagine deploying them completely sideways... they can't even shift.

Got a couple games in this weekend, so had the chance to test some things out:

• 2x2 Oathsworn with Moment of Inspiration and Tempered Steel - Pretty solid! Not convinced about the upgrades, but decent frontloaded damage with the usual Oathsworn complications (getting better at deploying them)
• 2x1 naked Spearmen - In these games I had to close with my opponent so I couldn't use them as defensively as I'd have liked, but they held successfully for three turns all the same. That might be worth 18 points!
• 3x2 Spearmen with Lance Corporal and Raven Pennon Bearer - I adore the banner model so I've been looking for an excuse to use it, and this is a pretty solid case. The two together make this unit really versatile: I got off a charge when my opponent thought he could shift away, I reformed out of a flank and increased defense before being attacked, I considered facing off against Death Knights to contest their very late advance. In combat, the unit was at Defense 2 virtually every turn, and I don't believe it ever suffered damage before getting a chance to reveal its dial. Two exhaustible upgrades is a bit rough, but it felt quite good. Worth playing more with.
• 3x1 Heavy Crossbows with Rank Discipline and Rallying Cornicen - Meh. I definitely missed the damage from Tempered Steel, and found myself playing them far enough back that the horn wasn't in a great spot. Maybe in a build with two units of crossbows, but I'm skeptical.