1 hour ago, Kristjan said:

This is a topic I've been thinking about recently. I would compare a Cymoon with strategic advisor ~ 116pts to a Dcap Victory ii and a gozanti ~ 111pts. They both serve similar roles and operate at low speeds. In a Sloane fleet I would probably go with the vic2/gozanti, but otherwise I think the Cymoon is better for long range firepower.

If you toss on IF you get a force multiplier as well.

For my part, a lone Vic is a dead Vic. It does not do enough damage on the approach to soften a large target so it can finish. An ISD with XI7's and an accuracy to lock the Brace makes quick work of one of these in 2-3 shots by itself. I strongly suggest running Vics in pairs. You need to keep them together and insure that what ever ventures into range of one, will get hit by both. This is their primary defense against black dice brawlers like the MC30 Torp Frigate and the Gladiator which can tear into them quickly. You need to be able to get both Vics to fire on the incoming target on the way in.

I also think that due to their inability to turn and pursue, Vics need a squadron wing to support/help finish off the stragglers. Nothing worse than letting a badly mauled ship escape. Most small ships go down quickly to the Steele Double Tap and 2 D. Caps. salvos.

Lacking an evade, the Vic does suffer against a swarm of small ships if they can out activate and skirt away from the Vics. D.Caps and Quad Batts help with this a lot, but even still, CR 90s and Arquitens darting in and moving off after absorbing a salvo is a bad situation for the Vics. Again, the bomber wing is there to swat small fast movers and the Vics. are there to coordinate with the bombers to finish off the large targets in short order.

The Vics also can provide a safe haven of flak coverage to support the fighters.

I have never been impressed by all ship, min squad Vic lists because of how they suffer from low deployment count and the inability to finish off wounded targets. ISD's do much better in squad light/ squadless builds due to their maneuverability and speed. They can turn and pursue, and they can extend and escape a B-Wing ball. Vics can not. They must fight through and often die without squad support.

7 minutes ago, Space_Cowboy17 said:

For my part, a lone Vic is a dead Vic. It does not do enough damage on the approach to soften a large target so it can finish. An ISD with XI7's and an accuracy to lock the Brace makes quick work of one of these in 2-3 shots by itself. I strongly suggest running Vics in pairs. You need to keep them together and insure that what ever ventures into range of one, will get hit by both. This is their primary defense against black dice brawlers like the MC30 Torp Frigate and the Gladiator which can tear into them quickly. You need to be able to get both Vics to fire on the incoming target on the way in.

I also think that due to their inability to turn and pursue, Vics need a squadron wing to support/help finish off the stragglers. Nothing worse than letting a badly mauled ship escape. Most small ships go down quickly to the Steele Double Tap and 2 D. Caps. salvos.

Lacing an evade, the Vic does suffer against a swarm of small ships if they can out activate and skirt away from the Vics. D.Caps and Quad Batts help with this a lot, but even still, CR 90s and Arquitens darting in and moving off after absorbing a salvo is a bad situation for the Vics. Again, the bomber wing is there ti swat small fast movers and the Vics. are there to coordinate with the bombers to finish off the large targets in short order.

The Vics also can provide a safe haven of flak coverage to support the fighters.

I have never been impressed by all ship, min squad Vic lists because of how they suffer from low deployment count and the inability to finish off wounded targets.

2 Raiders are better at supporting a Vic than 2 Vics are at supporting each other.

The DC GT Vic will let you hit 2 targets, and by deploying a Raider on either side of the Vic you can rush the Raiders in at both targets. Raiders are cheap, so you can sacrifice them in this way to protect the higher investment Vic. You essentially force your opponent to attack the ER Raiders or take 8 dice on the following round.

The Raiders are also better at anti-squad, so by flying formation you can prevent squads from moving in to attack the Vic. Instead, they will likely focus on one of the Raiders, so the Vic and other Raider are free to engage the carrier.

They will also act as a deterrent from any close range ship from moving into the Vic's front arc because you can overlap all 3 ships. Again, they will have to pick off a Raider before trying the Vic, which buys you time to reposition and attack.

If you struggle against MSU, Comms Net and stack Repairs. Healing 3 shields a round and JJ to yaw is the best combo against MSU.

For long range firepower, that's the Cymoon's role, no contest. Superior speed and max damage potential outweighs DCaps by a country mile.

However, the VSD is reasonably sturdy and significantly cheaper obviously. If you can counter your speed issue in deployment, the VSDII is great to allow other stuff to shine while not losing too much. Though if you make a mistake here or overload on upgrades, you're bound to notice it even more than on the Cymoon.

This actually fits quite well if you think of the VSD as an old main line ship brought back into service when the top-of-the-line stuff isn't available.