How should it be run?

If no squads, can it actually survive a 134 bomber apocalypse?

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

How should it be run?

If no squads, can it actually survive a 134 bomber apocalypse?

Define survive.

Can all 3 "survive" a bomber apocalypse?

No.

Can 2/3?

Maybe

Can 1?

Depends on how you fly, but most likely yes.

Against a bomber apocalypse, 3 ISDs are not gonna have a fun time hahahah

3 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

Define survive.

Can all 3 "survive" a bomber apocalypse?

No.

Can 2/3?

Maybe

Can 1?

Depends on how you fly, but most likely yes.

Against a bomber apocalypse, 3 ISDs are not gonna have a fun time hahahah

Defined: Can it win at least 45% of the time, if not 50%, assuming equal skill.

#2: Is it better to add a flotilla and try and get up to 5 activations? hmm.

42 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Defined: Can it win at least 45% of the time, if not 50%, assuming equal skill.

#2: Is it better to add a flotilla and try and get up to 5 activations? hmm.

As cool as running 3 ISDs is, 2 with upgrades and a small amount of sqds or flotillas is better IMO.

Because (assuming equal skill) the ISDs will often find themselves having to run through the bomber wing, then into the front or side arcs of their enemies.

At that point it becomes "can whatever survived do enough damage to make up for the losses?"

I wonder about the viability of EWS on triple ISDs, it makes the bombers have a substantially more difficult time.

23 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

As cool as running 3 ISDs is, 2 with upgrades and a small amount of sqds or flotillas is better IMO.

Because (assuming equal skill) the ISDs will often find themselves having to run through the bomber wing, then into the front or side arcs of their enemies.

At that point it becomes "can whatever survived do enough damage to make up for the losses?"

Of course. Its just... now I have 3 ISDs....

5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Of course. Its just... now I have 3 ISDs....

Ooooh yeah. I know.

My advice? Find someone willing to play a 500/600pt casual game.

The extra 100-200pts allows the triple ISD list to actually function at full capacity.

13 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Of course. Its just... now I have 3 ISDs....

I have 4. It's gonna be epic.

41 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Of course. Its just... now I have 3 ISDs....

For when epic gets announced

Ord Porgs would be great in this circumstance though, since you can spray an arc worth of squads twice.

Choose one ISD, add OP/OE/Kallus/QLT/CB. Against heavy squad lists let it be your pointman and charge the squads.

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

How should it be run?

If no squads, can it actually survive a 134 bomber apocalypse?

Maybe they cannot but can the enemy 246 ship points survive a 380 ISD apocalypse?

Mr @Blail Blerg requires lists. Here's one.

400/400, Blockade Run, Contested Outpost, Solar Corona
ISD Cymoon, Konstantine, Gunnery Team, Strategic Adviser, Intensify Firepower. 152
ISD Cymoon, Gunnery Team, QBTs. 124
ISD Cymoon, Gunnery Team, QBTs. 124

If the enemy slow roll against 3 GT ISDs it shouldn't go well for them. Konstantine may even speed one victim ship up so the QBTs can help. If the enemy come in fast I can shoot one to bits (or maybe two with GTs), slow another down for next turn and speed up a flanking MC30 so it overshoots (well that's the plan).

Against Bombers, forget the QBTs. Go in fast and kill some carriers. GTs can help kill 2 carriers or can allow you to kill one and spray lots of black flak dice against squadrons. Probably loose a Cymoon but hopefully not two. Konstantine can help stop pursuit and if carriers are using squadron commands they will not be negating Konstantine setting their speed to whatever I want after 2 turns.

I could replace one Cymoon for an ISD-I BT Avenger and a 1 point bid (or SFO).

34 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

Mr @Blail Blerg requires lists. Here's one.

400/400, Blockade Run, Contested Outpost, Solar Corona
ISD Cymoon, Konstantine, Gunnery Team, Strategic Adviser, Intensify Firepower. 152
ISD Cymoon, Gunnery Team, QBTs. 124
ISD Cymoon, Gunnery Team, QBTs. 124

If the enemy slow roll against 3 GT ISDs it shouldn't go well for them. Konstantine may even speed one victim ship up so the QBTs can help. If the enemy come in fast I can shoot one to bits (or maybe two with GTs), slow another down for next turn and speed up a flanking MC30 so it overshoots (well that's the plan).

Against Bombers, forget the QBTs. Go in fast and kill some carriers. GTs can help kill 2 carriers or can allow you to kill one and spray lots of black flak dice against squadrons. Probably loose a Cymoon but hopefully not two. Konstantine can help stop pursuit and if carriers are using squadron commands they will not be negating Konstantine setting their speed to whatever I want after 2 turns.

I could replace one Cymoon for an ISD-I BT Avenger and a 1 point bid (or SFO).

Now I have to try this.

4 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

How should it be run?

If no squads, can it actually survive a 134 bomber apocalypse?

Normaly i would say no. Squadrons need 2 turns for one ISD (no matter if it is a rebel or imperial bomber squad). Against anyone who know what they are doing with the squadrons, i would say: 2 ISD are dead for sure, 3 might be. And not really a chance for you to take down a single squadron.

BUT. The new Ordnace Pods give a nice boost. A Kuat ISD with Kallus and these Pods will be able to take down the squadrons really fast (first attack with Blue+Black+Black, second attack with black+black). And just add a Quad Laser Turret. And Ordnace Experts are never bad with this many black dice .

At 500, you can build a relentlessly efficient triple Cymoon Vader list that can win reliably. At 400, not really.

My take lines up with @DrakonLord. 2 ISDs with support (squads or Gozantis) will now absolutely be a thing. Three is too much commitment in raw hull. You lose too much flexibility.

Did a fun little pre-release tourney w/ spoiled cards. I ran 3 Cymoons w/ Vader Gunnery Teams and a Strategic Officer... beat a bomber list by sacrificing an ISD to kill the Rebel ships. Lost to 2 upgunned ISD lists 5-6 and 4-7, so not horribly.

3 is fun but not “competitive”. 2 upgunned ISDs w/ minimal fighter cover or some flotilla padding are nasty customers.

4 minutes ago, Indomitable said:

3 is fun but not “competitive”. 2 upgunned ISDs w/ minimal fighter cover or some flotilla padding are nasty customers.

This is definitely the way to go. 3 ISDs is very scary, but they can't have more than 4 activations (can we just call Strategic Adviser an activation?) or toys that really put nails in coffins, like XI7s. Better off putting some ornaments (upgrades) on your trees (2 ISDs) and putting a nice little stack or presents underneath (more activations, squadrons, etc.).

nice idea @Mad Cat

59 minutes ago, IronNerd said:

This is definitely the way to go. 3 ISDs is very scary, but they can't have more than 4 activations (can we just call Strategic Adviser an activation?) or toys that really put nails in coffins, like XI7s. Better off putting some ornaments (upgrades) on your trees (2 ISDs) and putting a nice little stack or presents underneath (more activations, squadrons, etc.).

This. Double ISDs can almost always hold their own, especially in a tournament or Corellian Conflict when you aren't guaranteed a bad matchup consistently, and you are left about 100 points after moderate upgrades on the ISD to build into the meta you expect to fight (closer to 160 if you include the specific kit on the battleships).

However, triple ISDs is another thing entirely. At a bare minimum, you are at 350 points down just from requireds (3x I-1s plus Ozzel, who is suboptimal here), so you have fifty points for upgrades, split three ways. They are hideously reliant on the raw power of an ISD, rather than the force multiplication of upgrades (particularly things like Gunnery Teams, any rerolls, and your taste in anti-token technology). Further, as @Crabbok's demo game with W7 tech unintentionally demonstrated very well, they can't control engagement. Two is close enough to get a modified Thatch Weave going on, where to strike one you have to expose yourself to her sister sweeping your legs out while the first suffers the punishment. In a triple ISD environment, firstly that third ISD cannot engage the same target as her two sisters, usually period, due to the interaction between size, speed, and distance over a line versus around an arc. Second, those 110-130ish points sitting off to one side are NOT upgrades on the ship getting beaten up to keep it in the fight, nor firepower improvements on either of the two ships engaged in battle, making it significantly more likely that the battered ISD will fall, and that her sacrifice will not allow you to trade up.

However, since you asked, this is the only other list besides @Mad Cat's I would dare hope could do remotely well.

Name: I Have A Bad Feeling About This
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault: Opening Salvo
Defense: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation: Solar Corona

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Moff Jerjerrod (23)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Hardend Bulkheads (5)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
= 151 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Hardend Bulkheads (5)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
= 124 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Hardend Bulkheads (5)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
= 124 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 399

I have a dream...

Cymoon w/ Tarkin, Entrapment

Cymoon w/ Sovereign, Shields to Max

Cymoon w/ Strategic Advisor, Intensify Firepower

It has only a little dice mitigation, no gunnery teams, and not much defense against alpha strikes... but I still want to run this for fun. You can guarantee activation of the fleet commands, and in the first couple rounds bank a huge pile of tokens to help see you through combat.

4 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

This. Double ISDs can almost always hold their own, especially in a tournament or Corellian Conflict when you aren't guaranteed a bad matchup consistently, and you are left about 100 points after moderate upgrades on the ISD to build into the meta you expect to fight (closer to 160 if you include the specific kit on the battleships).

However, triple ISDs is another thing entirely. At a bare minimum, you are at 350 points down just from requireds (3x I-1s plus Ozzel, who is suboptimal here), so you have fifty points for upgrades, split three ways. They are hideously reliant on the raw power of an ISD, rather than the force multiplication of upgrades (particularly things like Gunnery Teams, any rerolls, and your taste in anti-token technology). Further, as @Crabbok's demo game with W7 tech unintentionally demonstrated very well, they can't control engagement. Two is close enough to get a modified Thatch Weave going on, where to strike one you have to expose yourself to her sister sweeping your legs out while the first suffers the punishment. In a triple ISD environment, firstly that third ISD cannot engage the same target as her two sisters, usually period, due to the interaction between size, speed, and distance over a line versus around an arc. Second, those 110-130ish points sitting off to one side are NOT upgrades on the ship getting beaten up to keep it in the fight, nor firepower improvements on either of the two ships engaged in battle, making it significantly more likely that the battered ISD will fall, and that her sacrifice will not allow you to trade up.

However, since you asked, this is the only other list besides @Mad Cat's I would dare hope could do remotely well.

Name: I Have A Bad Feeling About This
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault: Opening Salvo
Defense: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation: Solar Corona

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Moff Jerjerrod (23)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Hardend Bulkheads (5)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
= 151 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Hardend Bulkheads (5)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
= 124 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Hardend Bulkheads (5)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
= 124 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 399

I understand. I've done both a few times.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

I understand. I've done both a few times.

I know you do, it's as much for posterity's sake as anything else, so I wanted to make my full opinions clear thusly.

On 1/19/2018 at 9:38 AM, codegnave said:

3 Cymoons with all commands but AFFM, obviosly.

(I want to see someone try this, for laughs)

Go all in!

Edit: Woops! TheBigLev beat me to it!

3 Gunnery Team cymoons with Vader is 393 points. Gives you rerolls on all shots and points for Tua/bläst doors or strat advisor on flagship... is it competitive?

Probably not, but it’d be a LOT of red dice every round lol

1 hour ago, codegnave said:

Go all in!

Edit: Woops! TheBigLev beat me to it!

It was your idea initially I do concede!