Occasionally, when I watch a game on youtube, one of the players will have writing with sharpie on their hands. The writing can be R2D2 or Rey, or something like that. But, it's always a reminder for some game mechanic. Is this legal? I really don't know. If it is, how would you feel about your opponent doing this to prevent a missed opportunity? Should people just remember their list's mechanics? Thanks.

I don't know about the official rules, but I have no problem with reminders so long as they aren't obnoxious.

I often use tracking tokens to keep track of once per turn abilities as I use them.

Honestly, who cares? As long as they're not disrupting or slowing the game, what's the problem?

I brought this up in the rules forum a week or so ago, I'm of the opinion that it is outside material and that it shouldn't be allowed.

I don't quite agree with the rule about no outside material as it seems very draconian, but the rules are the rules.

Actually the whole point of doing it on your hands is that it is legal but writing on a paper is not. Its a semi protest that we need proper floor rules as well.

From the regulations:

"Players cannot take notes or reference outside material or information during a tournament round. However, players may reference official rule documents or game components that do not contain hidden information at any time or ask a judge for clarification from official rule documents. Official rule documents include all rules documents and inserts available on the X-Wing page of our website, those found in an X-Wing product, or any portion thereof."

It could be argued that something like taping an additional copy of Rey (or just the word Rey from the card) to the back of your hand would "reference official ... game components ... or any portion thereof". Writing Rey on your hand instead of cutting a card in half is just less wasteful.

When Mrs. Rick first started playing she always forgot to take an action, so to fix that she just holds a focus token in her hand.

3 minutes ago, pheaver said:

From the regulations:

"Players cannot take notes or reference outside material or information during a tournament round. However, players may reference official rule documents or game components that do not contain hidden information at any time or ask a judge for clarification from official rule documents. Official rule documents include all rules documents and inserts available on the X-Wing page of our website, those found in an X-Wing product, or any portion thereof."

It could be argued that something like taping an additional copy of Rey (or just the word Rey from the card) to the back of your hand would "reference official ... game components ... or any portion thereof". Writing Rey on your hand instead of cutting a card in half is just less wasteful.

LOL. I'm just thinking of someone bringing in a set of target lock tokens and spelling out: "DID YOU REMEMBER TO" on the table and then put an extra copy of Rey and Sensor Jammer cards under it. That's legal game components right?

pretty sure the intent behind disallowing note taking and referencing was to curb potential slow play

one's hands seem like they're pretty easy to access during a timed environment, so s'all good right?

20 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

pretty sure the intent behind disallowing note taking and referencing was to curb potential slow play

one's hands seem like they're pretty easy to access during a timed environment, so s'all good right?

RAW! Not RAI, RAW!

I just think a lot of it comes down to the intent. Which is a ***** of a thing to try and discern. There are A LOT of triggers and abilities in this game. And it just gets more expansive in each release. After 4 or 5 rounds my brain is mush and I know a lot of other peoples are too. If someone has "R2D2!" on their hand as a very basic reminder of a game trigger to regen their shields, whatever. It's not affecting *MY* game. This game is supposed to be about good decision making, flying good, and knowing how to adapt as the game goes on. It's not supposed to be about punishing someone for forgetting an action or trigger that they had every right to use.

But that's just the the filthy casual side of me.

39 minutes ago, viedit said:

LOL. I'm just thinking of someone bringing in a set of target lock tokens and spelling out: "DID YOU REMEMBER TO" on the table and then put an extra copy of Rey and Sensor Jammer cards under it. That's legal game components right?

Oh, I'm wanting to do this at the next Regional: Spell out "Y-O-U W-I-L-L L-O-S-E" and stare at my opponent.

Now we know why there are so many Target Lock tokens...

Since I play for fun, my experience won't line up, but I don't care what reminders people have for avoiding missed opportunities. I want to play the best version of my opponent, not gloat because they forgot a trigger.

With my TO hat on, the rules are the rules. Ink on your skin could be a tattoo for all I know, papers are obviously outside material though.

I have tattoos up and down both arms with reminders.

16 minutes ago, Fuzzywookie said:

I have tattoos up and down both arms with reminders.

I saw your movie. A bit dark, but it was pretty good. You’re reminders need to be more clear...

Remember Sammy Jankis...

2 hours ago, viedit said:

I just think a lot of it comes down to the intent.

I think that while the intent as to WHY the rule is there in the first place is debatable, it is irrelevant. The fact that the rule is there is indisputable and for tournaments at least should be enforced.

as I said above, I don't like the rule at all, but a rule is a rule and should be adhered to. I don't like that TLT triggers Harpooned! but the FAQ confirms the interaction. Accepting the rules is part of the game whether people agree with them or not.

Now as people have pointed out above there are actually ways of loopholing this rule with actual FFG products which falls within the technical parameters of the rule (sticking another copy of the Rey crew card to the back of your hand as mentioned above) so the issue is that FFG probably need to actually revisit this rule, or as others have pointed out write up and provide a set of "Floor Rules" for tournaments.

3 hours ago, Boba Rick said:

RAW! Not RAI, RAW!

it's actually ROH

rules on hand

3 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

I think that while the intent as to WHY the rule is there in the first place is debatable, it is irrelevant. The fact that the rule is there is indisputable and for tournaments at least should be enforced.

as I said above, I don't like the rule at all, but a rule is a rule and should be adhered to. I don't like that TLT triggers Harpooned! but the FAQ confirms the interaction. Accepting the rules is part of the game whether people agree with them or not.

Now as people have pointed out above there are actually ways of loopholing this rule with actual FFG products which falls within the technical parameters of the rule (sticking another copy of the Rey crew card to the back of your hand as mentioned above) so the issue is that FFG probably need to actually revisit this rule, or as others have pointed out write up and provide a set of "Floor Rules" for tournaments.

Does a quote of a rule/card not count as ‘a part’ of an official FFG product? Don’t see the dilemma tbh.

Is glancing at the back of your hand 'referencing outside material'? Heck no. It's not picking up a book/article other than the official rules/tournament pack, it's a visual reminder.

Sorry, but if you have a problem with a reminder on the back of someones hand, that's just more than a bit retentive.

"Players cannot take notes or reference outside material or information during a tournament round.
However, players may reference official rule documents or game components that do not contain
hidden information at any time or ask a judge for clarification from official rule documents. Official
rule documents include all rules documents and inserts available on the X-Wing page of our
website, those found in an X-Wing product, or any portion thereof."

I've markered reminders on my hands for years, been mocked for it, and been called out for breaking this tournament reg after it was implemented - I'm fairly certain I popularized the practice.

1) The items we're discussing constitute "open information".

2) FFG officials, at Worlds, have assured me that it's kosher. This includes writing down your opponents' squads. You're just not permitted to take notes DURING the round, and I've never even seen that rule enforced at any level.

I once had to take notes to keep track of our local loser WAAC guy's shields and hull dmg... caught him 'forgetting' to remove a shield...

Quote

Tokens
Tokens are representations of information about the game or game state. The presence of tokens—other than tokens that are essential components—is marked by one or more indicators. Indicators may also be used to represent multiple tokens, or other open or derived information. Essential tokens are ship and obstacle tokens, as well as any bomb tokens (in a reasonable quantity) required for a player’s list. Other tokens are not essential components.

Typically, players use he cardboard tokens included in official product as indicators. However, players may choose to use other items as indicators, so long as they do not obscure significant component information, are resistant to accidental modification, and their purpose of use is clear to both players. The marshal is responsible for determining the legality of an indicator and its reasonable usage during a match if objected to by its owner’s opponent.

You could take a picture of Daisy Ridley, write "Did you remember me?" and leave it there next to you as a "token", just make sure your opponent understands what it is on the table for. Tape the picture to the back of you hand, its still a token. Getting really creepy at that point, but still a token.

12 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

I think that while the intent as to WHY the rule is there in the first place is debatable, it is irrelevant. The fact that the rule is there is indisputable and for tournaments at least should be enforced.

as I said above, I don't like the rule at all, but a rule is a rule and should be adhered to. I don't like that TLT triggers Harpooned! but the FAQ confirms the interaction. Accepting the rules is part of the game whether people agree with them or not.

Now as people have pointed out above there are actually ways of loopholing this rule with actual FFG products which falls within the technical parameters of the rule (sticking another copy of the Rey crew card to the back of your hand as mentioned above) so the issue is that FFG probably need to actually revisit this rule, or as others have pointed out write up and provide a set of "Floor Rules" for tournaments.

My meaning of "intent" was more on the player side, not the developers. The intent is simply a reminder. It's not malicious, it doesn't provide any outside information, it doesn't affect the other persons game in any meaningful way since it's reminders on legal actions/triggers.

In nearly every operating room or procedural room in hospitals across the the US there is a process done called a "Timeout". This is a time where clinicians stop, double check the site/side/appendage they are going to be working on. Verify who is doing what, and make sure everyone is ready to do this.

This is basically a personal timeout to me. In situations where a persons well being is at risk it's mandated. In a situation where we are playing for cards and pieces of acrylic we are arguing over it. It's just a perspective thing to me.

15 hours ago, Fuzzywookie said:

I have tattoos up and down both arms with reminders.

How can you see them with all that hair? Wait, you're not one of those terrifying shaved wookies are you?