5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Can you post the exact list?

The one that won this: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3954

Although personally I prefer flight control astro over R2. Especially when setting up the first crucial engagement it gives you way more options when it comes to setting the pace and catching the opponent in a bad position.

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Can you post the exact list?

Probably this or something like really close:

Fenn Rau + Veteran Instincts + R2 Astromech + Hotshot Co-Pilot
"Zeb" Orrelios
Lothal Rebel + Sensor Jammer + Twin Laser Turret + Maul + Ezra Bridger + Ghost + Engine Upgrade
(99)

1 minute ago, Lightrock said:

The one that won this: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3954

Although personally I prefer flight control astro over R2. Especially when setting up the first crucial engagement it gives you way more options when it comes to setting the pace and catching the opponent in a bad position.

Ninja’d. And ditto on the FAA over R2.

12 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

Honestly, if someone finds a good counter I'd really like to know what it might be, because neither autothrusters, nor regen, nor harpoons, nor bombs seem to work very well.

I generally agree with your assessment, and I've tried a few things against it. A squad that has worked okay in practice and got me a win in Swiss is Quickdraw/Fel/Omega Leader. Quickdraw has Expertise, and sells herself as dearly as possible to maximize damage to Fenn. Once Fenn is gone, Fel and Omega Leader slowly grind away at the Ghost (how slowly depends on the specific Ghost build). Fel has ATs and so many tokens that the Ghost has a lot of trouble getting damage through. Omega Leader nullifies all modification and can chip away as well. The combo is pretty effective overall, although bad defense dice can still end you.

4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I generally agree with your assessment, and I've tried a few things against it. A squad that has worked okay in practice and got me a win in Swiss is Quickdraw/Fel/Omega Leader. Quickdraw has Expertise, and sells herself as dearly as possible to maximize damage to Fenn. Once Fenn is gone, Fel and Omega Leader slowly grind away at the Ghost (how slowly depends on the specific Ghost build). Fel has ATs and socmany tokens that tje Ghost has a lot of trouble getting damage through. Omega Leader nullifies all modification and can chip away as well. The combo is pretty effective overall, although bad defense dice can still end you.

I've had ideas like that too. It's not that it wouldn't work against fenn/ghost (though it might not if he outmaneuvers you or your dice go cold). It's that you take a list like that to a large tournament and end up facing nymranda, quadruple wookies, stressbot lists etc. And then it gets really, really hard to make the cut in the first place.

6 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

I've had ideas like that too. It's not that it wouldn't work against fenn/ghost (though it might not if he outmaneuvers you or your dice go cold). It's that you take a list like that to a large tournament and end up facing nymranda, quadruple wookies, stressbot lists etc. And then it gets really, really hard to make the cut in the first place.

Welcome to matchup-wing.

6 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

I've had ideas like that too. It's not that it wouldn't work against fenn/ghost (though it might not if he outmaneuvers you or your dice go cold). It's that you take a list like that to a large tournament and end up facing nymranda, quadruple wookies, stressbot lists etc. And then it gets really, really hard to make the cut in the first place.

In all honesty, neither Nymiranda or Stressbots scare me with this list. Quad Wookies, I haven't had the chance to test against.

Quickdraw and OL don't like TLT's. At all. I'd almost go with quiz over QD.

I figured it out!

Lothal Rebel (35)
Fire-Control System (2)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Rey (2)
Tactician (2)

Lothal Rebel (35)
Reinforced Deflectors (3)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Wookiee Commandos (1)
Ghost (Phantom II) (0)

AP-5 (15)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Phantom II (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

The only thing better than a PS 11 coordinated boost is a PS 12 one

2 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I figured it out!

Lothal Rebel (35)
Fire-Control System (2)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Rey (2)
Tactician (2)

Lothal Rebel (35)
Reinforced Deflectors (3)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Wookiee Commandos (1)
Ghost (Phantom II) (0)

AP-5 (15)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Phantom II (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

The only thing better than a PS 11 coordinated boost is a PS 12 one

I think you are missing the boost part

2 minutes ago, wurms said:

I think you are missing the boost part

Needs Leebo crew on on without phantom.

3 minutes ago, viedit said:

Quickdraw and OL don't like TLT's. At all. I'd almost go with quiz over QD.

OL is okay of the Ghost is locked. Not great, but okay, and she's reasonably competent at occasionally hitting Range 1. Quickdraw definitely doesn't but she's not the end-game ship, so you make do.

45 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

OL is okay of the Ghost is locked. Not great, but okay, and she's reasonably competent at occasionally hitting Range 1. Quickdraw definitely doesn't but she's not the end-game ship, so you make do.

Is anyone else scared of the Attack Shuttle?

I find that in all the games I win against this list...the final moments against the Attack Shuttle are actually the most tense and interesting.

That little bugger can really put the hurt down on Quickdraw if he reaches the end game without any shields...

9 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Is anyone else scared of the Attack Shuttle?

I find that in all the games I win against this list...the final moments against the Attack Shuttle are actually the most tense and interesting.

That little bugger can really put the hurt down on Quickdraw if he reaches the end game without any shields...

Absolutely. I've played a lot of games against Kanan-Biggs, and I feel like the games I lose are the ones where disembarking catches me off guard.

Btw, just making sure everyone knows Kanan isn’t the best ghost pilot for this list. He keeps being used instead of just “ghost”.

8 hours ago, wurms said:

I think you are missing the boost part

Dammit! I knew I had too many points to spend. Well anyway, you get the idea.

2 hours ago, Sekac said:

Dammit! I knew I had too many points to spend. Well anyway, you get the idea.

Good idea! Let's see, add Leebo, Dash, and Collision Detector to the non-Ghost so it can always boost and shoot. Sprinkle in some stress clearance, and points fortress the shuttle...

Lothal Rebel (35)
Collision Detector (0)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Courier Droid (0)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Ghost (Phantom II) (0)

AP-5 (15)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)
Phantom II (0)

Lothal Rebel (35)
Collision Detector (0)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Dash Rendar (2)
"Leebo" (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

A friend of mine is tabling people in silly time using:

Lothal:
TLT
Ezra
Maul
Sensor Jammer
Engine
Title

Fenn:
VI
Hotshot
Flight Assist

Zeb:
Title

He went 5 - 1 in a regional, still got the elimination matches to play but in two of those games, he only lost a single shield, which were on Fenn. That's right, a zero agility ship went two matches without taking any damage.

One of the games ended in 9 minutes.

I have no idea how to stop it. He only evades with the Ghost and the combination of Fenn ability + Hotshot + Sensor Jammer seems to be enough to stop almost all damage and against an Imperial Alpha list, Fenn Coordinated the Ghost into range 1 and Vader exploded. Quickdraw was then four diced and TLT to death whilst Fenn tanked the shots, taking nothing. Match over.

If he doesn't win the Regional, i'll be very surprised.

That's the version that won the most recent System Open. It's too bad there's a week gap (Warboar?), it will give people time to develop strategies. It's a tough list, but not usually "single damage" tough. Opponents were probably blindsided.

Like many lists of its ilk, it's a trap list that you need new strategies to fly against. If you miss how it works, it screws you.

But once you've grasped how it works, you should be able to work around it.

In this case, the trap is shooting the Ghost at all, before Fenn's dead.

6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Like many lists of its ilk, it's a trap list that you need new strategies to fly against. If you miss how it works, it screws you.

But once you've grasped how it works, you should be able to work around it.

In this case, the trap is shooting the Ghost at all, before Fenn's dead.

Easier said than done. You may eat 1-2 rounds of double attacks before you can even reach Fenn. A good player is going to manage his approach and keep Fenn tucked back behind the Ghost either at range 3 or further from you for as long as he can. If you have a 2 ship list Fenn is going to shut down one of them offensively and keep himself safe while the ghost punishes you. There's not a lot of ships that are fast enough/elusive enough to get behind him and rush Fenn and survive the approach.

In the Krayt thread I opined that it was coordinated PS11 boost that really pushes this list into the elite tier. You can correct so many mistakes with that. On a rock? Boost and fix it. Have someone out of arc in the rear at range one? Boost and fix it. Under threat of a range 2 harpoon shot? Boost and fix it. If a subtle nerf of coordinate to be worded as "you may coordinate actions *printed* on the friendly ships action bar" were applied it could make this list powerful, but beatable. Engine upgrade "adds" the boost action to your action bar, but it isn't printed. It's a nuanced change that doesn't entirely change the list, but it's just enough that it isn't positively abusive.

That wouldn't be a subtle nerf it would be a complete trash of both how adding actions works, and coordinate in general.

It's a tough list, for sure.

But it's not unbeatable, even with most lists. It will come down to the skill of both players.

Also, if you're letting him hide fenn behind the ghost, you're doing it wrong. Flank. Don't let him keep Fenn out of range of all your ships at once. Don't joust your whole list into the enemy all at once, that's usually a good way to lose (unless you're playing a list with a better jousting value, which are few and far between but do definitely exist).

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

That's the version that won the most recent System Open. It's too bad there's a week gap (Warboar?), it will give people time to develop strategies. It's a tough list, but not usually "single damage" tough. Opponents were probably blindsided.

I played it twice and here is how it went down.

Me:
TIE Shuttle (Scimitar)
Fleet Officer
TIE MkII

Maarek:
VI
Ion Cannon
TIE/D
TIE MkII

Rexlar
Adapt
Tractor Beam
TIE/D
TIE MkII

I forced the engagement through the rocks in the center thinking it would reduce his P11 boost options, I had both Rex and Maarek double focused, Ghost at range 2 and Fenn behind it at three.

Fenn fired at Rex, rolled blanks but Hotshot so I lost a focus. Rex activated, Fenn used his ability and failed to tractor Fenn or do any damage with the primary. Naturally, due to Hotshot, Rex is now tokenless.

Maarek opens up, Ion misses but the primary deals one damage.

Ghost fires primary at Rex, after mods, it's a crit and three hits. I roll one evade and two focus so lose all shields. TLT fires and both shots hit Rex.

Next turn, I block the two bank with the shuttle and fleet again but it's not good. The Ghost hard turns, narrowly missing a rock and clears. Evades. I k turn both defenders and Fenn clears stress, using FAA to bring Maarek back into arc.

Fenn fires and kills Rex.
Maarek activates and gets stung by Fenn's ability, fails to deal any damage (ion or primary) to Fenn. The Ghost four dices Maarek, who takes two. Both TLT hit.

Next turn, Shuttle manages to line up nicely and fleet officers once more but the Ghost K - turns, meaning the Ghost and Maarek are staring at each at other range 2. Fenn uses FAA to get Maarek into his rear arc. Fenn deals no damage but I lose a focus. My ion shot on Fenn again does nothing (rolled 1 hit and two focus) but I have to spend it for zero gain. Primary was equally disappointing, rolling one hit and focus which is then evaded. Ghost fires once more and finishes off Fenn.

1 damage.

The issue is, the TLT would often manage to roll 2 hits then either a focus or blank, Maul re-rolls it to a hit or a focus and Ezra changes it to a crit. My Defenders had to weather four hits or three hits every time, tokenless and my offence just was seriously lacking.

Honestly, I've never lost a game so badly (and I've been playing since Wave 2). I appreciate that my list isn't optimal / even meta but to get the sausage THAT bad. It's demoralizing !

All I'm saying is that he has a Range 3 double tap all the way around him and it's very hard to shoot that gap in a single turn and get to Fenn if he is flying it well. You are going to be eating at best, 4 TLT attacks, at worst a modified 4 dice primary + TLT. If you do manage to make range 1 on him and *not* block Fenn then he coordinates the boost and you are eating a 5 dice primary that is highly modded.

I agree that the plan for *most* lists that aren't teched to specifically knock out the Ghost is to get Fenn cornered off and away from the Ghost. But a competent player is going to do everything they can to punish you for that approach. Right now we are struggling to find the right balance of tech vs. this list and still be viable against anything else you face.

28 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

That wouldn't be a subtle nerf it would be a complete trash of both how adding actions works, and coordinate in general.

It's a tough list, for sure.

But it's not unbeatable, even with most lists. It will come down to the skill of both players.

Also, if you're letting him hide fenn behind the ghost, you're doing it wrong. Flank. Don't let him keep Fenn out of range of all your ships at once. Don't joust your whole list into the enemy all at once, that's usually a good way to lose (unless you're playing a list with a better jousting value, which are few and far between but do definitely exist).

I think you're correct, here, but to have a reasonable chance at success, it really helps if you have at least one solid passive mod to push damage through. Between HSCP and Fenn's ability, you'll have multiple ships doing suboptimal damage. A reliable damage source can swing things your way in a real way. This becomes less necessary, I think, as you gain more ships in your squad.