This has come up several times and I think my local gaming store is in the wrong, but I would like others opinions on this.

Several times I have played against harpoon lists, and between Fenn Rau denying tokens and evades, there have been a couple of times where no damage has come through on my end from a harpoon. However, the guys there have said that even though I evaded the dice for the harpoon where no damage went through, I was still harpooned. Isn't this incorrect?

Unless you have someone like Lt. Blount who says the attack hits even if it doesn't, wouldn't I not have the harpoon condition applied to me if the opponent gets no damage through? Otherwise, what is the point of having the card read "if that attack hits" The ships have been PS 2 Rho boats and a Miranda that I have evaded on.

Thanks in advance,

Smurfy

6 minutes ago, uscsmurf said:

This has come up several times and I think my local gaming store is in the wrong, but I would like others opinions on this.

Several times I have played against harpoon lists, and between Fenn Rau denying tokens and evades, there have been a couple of times where no damage has come through on my end from a harpoon. However, the guys there have said that even though I evaded the dice for the harpoon where no damage went through, I was still harpooned. Isn't this incorrect?

Unless you have someone like Lt. Blount who says the attack hits even if it doesn't, wouldn't I not have the harpoon condition applied to me if the opponent gets no damage through? Otherwise, what is the point of having the card read "if that attack hits" The ships have been PS 2 Rho boats and a Miranda that I have evaded on.

Thanks in advance,

Smurfy

You are correct, they are wrong. An attack doing no damage, except with Blount, has missed, not hit.

You are correct. An attack only hits if there are uncancelled hit or crit results left after Compare Results, or if the person attacking is Lt Blount.

Just now, Innese said:

You are correct, they are wrong. An attack doing no damage, except with Blount, had missed, not hit.

Thank you Innese. Good to know I was right, and will remember that when they try to pull it next time.

@thespaceinvader has a clearer correct answer. There are a couple of reasons that a hit attack does no damage, but one must "compare dice results" before you can determine if there is a hit or not. "Hits" MUST EXCEED evade results in order for that attack to hit. Not dealing damage is one typical indication of missing an attack, but it isn't surefire. Tractor beam can hit, but does no damage, for example, so harpoons should trigger in that specific instance.

4 minutes ago, Yakostovian said:

@thespaceinvader has a clearer correct answer. There are a couple of reasons that a hit attack does no damage, but one must "compare dice results" before you can determine if there is a hit or not. "Hits" MUST EXCEED evade results in order for that attack to hit. Not dealing damage is one typical indication of missing an attack, but it isn't surefire. Tractor beam can hit, but does no damage, for example, so harpoons should trigger in that specific instance.

Except the question wasn't about the condition triggering, it was about a harpoon shot that did no damage applying the condition anyway. And as was already stated, the harpoon shot doing no damage has missed and unless it was fired by Blount the condition can't be applied.

Just now, bgrelle said:

Except the question wasn't about the condition triggering, it was about a harpoon shot that did no damage applying the condition anyway. And as was already stated, the harpoon shot doing no damage has missed and unless it was fired by Blount the condition can't be applied.

Ah. Yup, that is indeed the original question. I see my error.

Should you encounter further argument here's your reference:

Quote

6. Compare Results : For each [evade] result, the defender cancels one [hit] or [critical hit] result. All [hit] results must be canceled before any [critical hit] results may be canceled. If at least one [hit] or [critical hit] result remains uncanceled, the defender is hit by the attack; otherwise, the attack misses.

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Rules Reference ( The Force Awakens Core Set & Update) - Page 5 under the " ATTACK " section

Due note that Lt. Blount overrules this rule, as his pilot ability makes every attack he performs hit regardless of dice results.

The early posters are, of course, completely correct that if it's stuff like Fenn Rau denying their dice, and your dice getting enough results, yes, this is a miss and the condition will NOT be applied.

I'll add for completeness: if the reason a Harpoon Missiles attack does no damage to the target is due to Draw Their Fire or Selflessness, it will still count as a hit and apply the Harpooned! condition. Or Prince Xizor shifting his damage away, too, for that matter. Abilities such as this don't deny hits, but change who suffers the damage in the end.

3 hours ago, Yakostovian said:

"Hits" MUST EXCEED evade results in order for that attack to hit.

To be totally accurate, this is not true. You only need to have a minimum of 1 hit or crit in the attack pool at the end of the Compare Results step, then you have a hit. Ten Numb with 1 Crit result vs. 10,000 evades is still a hit.

44 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

To be totally accurate, this is not true. You only need to have a minimum of 1 hit or crit in the attack pool at the end of the Compare Results step, then you have a hit. Ten Numb with 1 Crit result vs. 10,000 evades is still a hit.

Show me this combo that gives you 10,000 evade results.

1 hour ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Show me this combo that gives you 10,000 evade results.

It's called "Isn't It Ironic?"

Which is precisely why I used the phrase 'at least one uncancelled hit or crit result. Because there is at least one way to get each result uncancelled, these days, whilst evade results remain - Fanatical Devotion, Autoblaster weapons, and Ten Numb.

Equally, note that 'uncancelled hit' does not have to translate to 'you took damage'. Blount is the simplest example but there are a few others out there which are relatively common.

When firing Harpoons into a classic rebel damage-denial squad, you need to make sure you understand whether the damage denial happened before or after "compare results".

Selflessness, Draw Their Fire, and anything else which moves damage off the original target to a nearby friend or even makes it evaporate entirely like determination, integrated astromech or salvaged astromech do not change the fact of your having been hit, and hence you are Harpooned! even if you take no damage.

Generating extra evade results sufficient to cancel the hits in the first place (from Lowhhrick's reinforce token), or stopping you generating the hits in the first place (Fenn Rau removing dice modifiers, or Kanan removing the dice in the first place) do and can prevent you being Harpooned!

double post...

16 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Should you encounter further argument here's your reference:

6. Compare Results : For each [evade] result, the defender cancels one [hit] or [critical hit] result. All [hit] results must be canceled before any [critical hit] results may be canceled. If at least one [hit] or [critical hit] result remains uncanceled, the defender is hit by the attack; otherwise, the attack misses.

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Rules Reference ( The Force Awakens Core Set & Update) - Page 5 under the " ATTACK " section

Due note that Lt. Blount overrules this rule, as his pilot ability makes every attack he performs hit regardless of dice results.

For completeness and to prevent any further argument from OP's opponent : Using an evade token adds an evade result to the defender poll.