Can Darth Vader and Han Solo use Element of Surprise in their end of round attacks? I do not know if I've been using Vader correctly. The card reads "Use when you declare an attack. If the target figure did not have line of sight to you at the start of your activation, remove 1 die from its defense pool." Let's say Vader moved his two spaces at the end of the round and attacked Han for example. Earlier this round, he started not having line of sight but ended within Han's line of sight. In this case, could he still use Element of Surprise at the end of the round?

23 minutes ago, QuarrenKing said:

Can Darth Vader and Han Solo use Element of Surprise in their end of round attacks? I do not know if I've been using Vader correctly. The card reads "Use when you declare an attack. If the target figure did not have line of sight to you at the start of your activation, remove 1 die from its defense pool." Let's say Vader moved his two spaces at the end of the round and attacked Han for example. Earlier this round, he started not having line of sight but ended within Han's line of sight. In this case, could he still use Element of Surprise at the end of the round?

Yes

The quoted ruling does not apply during End of Round.

There is no activation during end of round.

19 minutes ago, a1bert said:

The quoted ruling does not apply during End of Round.

There is no activation during end of round.

Todd specifically says it can be used during the end of round.

“If this happens during Start of Round or End of Round effects, it checks for line of sight at the start of that effects step.”

Sorry, didn't apparently read it through. I blame the flu.

(IMHO Todd isn't interpreting literally, but that's a discussion for a different place and time.)

So based on Todd's interpretation does the element go back to where the figure originally was when it first activated? or where it is standing at the end of round?

Consider Element of Surprise to read "at the start of this activation".

So, according to Todd during end of round it would refer to at the end of round.

My (also thematic) issue is that End of Round is a single trigger, not a phase, so "start of end of round" does not differ from "the end of end of round".

1 hour ago, ImperialOfficer said:

So based on Todd's interpretation does the element go back to where the figure originally was when it first activated? or where it is standing at the end of round?

End of round is the effect when you're wanting to use it. Todd says to check LOS at the beginning of the effect, so before anything else happens in the end of round.

4 hours ago, a1bert said:

Sorry, didn't apparently read it through. I blame the flu.

(IMHO Todd isn't interpreting literally, but that's a discussion for a different place and time.)

It gets the best of us all. I don't disagree with your interpretation and logic in the other thread, but Todd's ruling makes it pretty clear that it's intended to be able to be used in this situation despite the poorly worded card from the core set. At least, until he rules otherwise.

cool. thanks for the clarification guys.

Hmm in this case i'd like to open the thread again with one more question:

Since Todd considers Vader's end of round like a mini-activation, and EoS states in the text "at the start of the activation", is it then possible to play other cards which involve other parts of the activation, for example Force Surge or Dark Energy?

1 hour ago, erlucius90 said:

Hmm in this case i'd like to open the thread again with one more question:

Since Todd considers Vader's end of round like a mini-activation, and EoS states in the text "at the start of the activation", is it then possible to play other cards which involve other parts of the activation, for example Force Surge or Dark Energy?

No. It’s not an activation. The trigger for element of surprise is “use when you declare an attack” and not “use during your activation.” You can’t trigger those other cards outside of the activation.

12 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

No. It’s not an activation. The trigger for element of surprise is “use when you declare an attack” and not “use during your activation.” You can’t trigger those other cards outside of the activation.

So does that mean you would have to remember if you had LOS at the beginning of your activation? I find this is a bit confusing. I was also thinking about an interrupt like Call the Vanguard.

6 minutes ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

So does that mean you would have to remember if you had LOS at the beginning of your activation? I find this is a bit confusing. I was also thinking about an interrupt like Call the Vanguard.

Todd said in his ruling that you can use it in the beginning or end of round and check the line of sight condition at the beginning of that effect. So, if you use element on the attack from Call the Van, you check the line of sight condition when the beginning of round effect starts.

On 2/2/2018 at 3:23 AM, erlucius90 said:

Since Todd considers Vader's end of round like a mini-activation

He doesn't. I have asked and he doesn't go that far. Performing abilities during end of round (or start of round) do not cause an activation to happen.

Todd only The existing ruling interprets that Element of Surprise refers to the first ability triggered during end of round when Element of Surprise checks for "start of your activation". (Interpreted as "start of this activation".)

I don't wanna start another topic for a very similar question, so if anyone could oblige: If your opponent activates and goes to shoot Han, plays Element of Surprise - can you Return Fire with Element of Surprise as well?

2 hours ago, Kalandros said:

I don't wanna start another topic for a very similar question, so if anyone could oblige: If your opponent activates and goes to shoot Han, plays Element of Surprise - can you Return Fire with Element of Surprise as well?

Yes, if your opponent’s figure didn’t have LOS to Han at the beginning of the current activation