I have never seen anybody use this POS successfully. At least, not in a role that X-wings couldn't have done just as well and cheaper.

Best I can figure is a sort of late game pseudo-rogue for antisquadron. That seems pretty trivial for 2 points.

The extended threat range is nice too, but doesn't actually help against speed 5 unless the opponent screws it up: distance 5+1 is (slightly) longer than distance 4+2. So, in terms of the alpha strike, it kinda sits in a nebulous place between speed 4 and speed 5, but only for the purposes of shooting, not of pinning.

Sure it's nice for pot shots at Intel when it comes up, but realistically all it does is force the escorts to spread slightly further apart to keep the Intel safe. Which is not nothing , but seems kinda... not worth it.

So all of this makes me think it must work best as a component of a multifaceted squadron build. I just have no idea what that might look like. Maybe a 2 or 3 E's and a couple of YT-2400's? Shara? B-wings? Ketsu??

I feel like if you're bringing E-wings, you're going for a kill-the-squadrons squadron defense, but they don't actually kill squadrons all that fast. Or, if they engage to kill faster, they're not getting much use out of that Snipe they're paying for.

It just seems like they're best against unactivated non-rogue squadrons, which... I mean, I guess if that's something you're running into a lot, then, more power to you? But that's not something I see a lot of myself.

Corran is excluded from this, of course. Rogue + Snipe is a fantastic combo.

1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

Corran is excluded from this, of course. Rogue + Snipe is a fantastic combo.

Indeed. Do we also exclude Hera?

With blockers noob

I mean, you're right in your point. It's there to take out intel/irritating squads like saber. I think it's a bit over priced for the snipe 3 but whatevs. If I'm flying a rebel squadron group i usually just use xwings and z95's but I don't think E-wings are bad, just specialized, almost to the point of making them meh. If i were to use them I'd never use more than 2 at a time, and Corran would prob be included in that.

Edit: They remind me a lot of phantoms where I don't really see them as worth their points. I understand that they're "potentially" good, but potential doesn't tend to bat average, it tends to spike sometimes but frequently do nothing.

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

Indeed. Do we also exclude Hera?

Nope. In fact, the specific fleet I've been using to try them out also includes Hera. But then you're looking at 28+30 = 58 points for 2x3-dice shots. Which isn't going to alpha strike much.

@Vergilius was experimenting with them with GH/MC30/3xGR75 for a little while. GH had flight controllers and they were able to tap things further outside the bubble while still staying safe. I was running a Jerry bomber list (Actual tie bombers, and an admittedly bad list) and he picked off my jumpmaster and proceeded to kill pretty much everything. I think I got the MC30 with an ISD double arc? Snipe + speed 4 gives some nice positioning advantages but I probably wouldn't want to run them without flight controllers.

I'm also thinking they probably have utility picking off things like Shara or Ciena where you may not particularly want to eat a bunch of counter. Toryn rerolls they've got pretty reliable means of dealing 1 plink damage per attack to scatter aces.

7 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Nope. In fact, the specific fleet I've been using to try them out also includes Hera. But then you're looking at 28+30 = 58 points for 2x3-dice shots. Which isn't going to alpha strike much.

The way I see it Hera is a flotilla with unlimited Pryce. One of the best uses of that is last firsting with Ewings or Luke...

The preconditions for this to work in my book are two fold:

Firstly, that you have less activations than your opponent so couldnt do this naturally with an ordinary flotilla instead. Simple enough, its a qualoty not quantity play.

Secondly, that there is some mechanism for forcing your opponent to activate his squads earlier. This I havent figured out, do you leave a juicy ship as bait? Chuck Shara in as suicide? I cant see it. I think its key though to unlocking ewings potential though.

You combine them with A wings.

Speed 5 counter 2 interceptors move in and tie up the squadrons.

Speed 4 snipe E wings support from outside of combat, taking out the intel if needed.

After/if Awings are destroyed, the Ewing moves up and finishes the job.

4 A + 4E is a 104pt pain in the bum

2 A + 2 E + 2YT1300 + rogue sqd is a 92pt rounded sqd force i like taking, often including a VCX.

Anyway thats my 2cents one how to run Ewings. I also live in australia were metas are strange soooo

I use 2 with Shara, Rogue, X-wing and a VCXs. Engage with the others and pick off troublesome spots with the E's. They also extend Toryn Farr's threat rangevwith their snipe.

Here is a list I'v had alot of success with
http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=112017&key=07fa25320b7b8b0b80e1fae2c35c9a3a


E-wings are best used with flight controllers and All fighters follow me. With speed 5 and range two you always strike first. And 4 blue (5 with corran) is pretty dangerous!

6 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

You combine them with A wings.

Speed 5 counter 2 interceptors move in and tie up the squadrons.

Speed 4 snipe E wings support from outside of combat, taking out the intel if needed.

After/if Awings are destroyed, the Ewing moves up and finishes the job.

4 A + 4E is a 104pt pain in the bum

This is the next direction I'm looking at going, good to hear somebody else has done it successfully. I'm using a CC campaign to try and lrn2 E-wing, so I brought a bunch of them off the bat (also Hera and 2 VCXs, Sato Strategic list). I'm letting E-wings die little by little and replacing them with other stuff to try and find a good mix.

The A-wing tank-and-spank sounded pretty good. Ideally I think you'd do it with Shara, but I have a teammate who needs her much more than I do, and I think vanilla A's will probably do the job just fine.

15 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Secondly, that there is some mechanism for forcing your opponent to activate his squads earlier. This I havent figured out, do you leave a juicy ship as bait? Chuck Shara in as suicide? I cant see it. I think its key though to unlocking ewings potential though.

Exactly the sticking point I run into using them like that. I mean, they're awesome at that, but it sort of relies on the other guy feeding you shots. Certainly, stiff-arming during the squadron phase by just threatening that is still good, but it's not something a strong attacking force can't weather. Which was kind of the extended unspoken reasoning behind this:

30 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Which isn't going to alpha strike much.

Just now, Ardaedhel said:

This is the next direction I'm looking at going, good to hear somebody else has done it successfully. I'm using a CC campaign to try and lrn2 E-wing, so I brought a bunch of them off the bat (also Hera and 2 VCXs, Sato Strategic list). I'm letting E-wings die little by little and replacing them with other stuff to try and find a good mix.

The A-wing tank-and-spank sounded pretty good. Ideally I think you'd do it with Shara, but I have a teammate who needs her much more than I do, and I think vanilla A's will probably do the job just fine.

Yeah ive tried it with shara but i found that with she apparently hates me haha, i keep including her in fleets in the hopes ill get this mysterious "taking out her worth in points" moment that others seem to have, whereas for me im lucky to do 1-2 damage on a generic tie fighter on counter :/

Anyway, by the time the As and Es have died the YTs will have caught up to the action even without fleet support boosting their speed, your opponents squads basically facing waves of harder and harder fighters.

The E + A seems to be solid, and I've heard about that one for a while. I've mostly tried to make the 3-4 generic E-wings work, but I'm pretty convinced that you don't want more than 2 now.

For generics, I think FC is a must, because you want as much off of the squadron activation that you can absolutely get. You're probably going to want 2 Snipe 4s if you're going to take down a key target. Sure, 2 Snipe 3s will take down a generic Intel ship, but you really need 2 Snipe 4s to have a chance on Dengar/Jan.

I've really started from the standpoint of Corran+Adar is 32 points, whereas 2 E-wings is 30. Corran+Adar simply looks better on paper at that point, because you don't have to add an FC to get your 2 4 dice snipes, plus you've not used up other squadron points to get the Snipe. But you do have to specifically build for Corran because he becomes in danger of being locked during the ship phase itself, or during the squadron phase if you cannot activate him first and move off. The 2 E-wings also give you a bit more immediately control during the squadron activation, though you could always play Corran+E-wing for slightly better effect.

1 minute ago, Vergilius said:

The E + A seems to be solid, and I've heard about that one for a while. I've mostly tried to make the 3-4 generic E-wings work, but I'm pretty convinced that you don't want more than 2 now.

For generics, I think FC is a must, because you want as much off of the squadron activation that you can absolutely get. You're probably going to want 2 Snipe 4s if you're going to take down a key target. Sure, 2 Snipe 3s will take down a generic Intel ship, but you really need 2 Snipe 4s to have a chance on Dengar/Jan.

I've really started from the standpoint of Corran+Adar is 32 points, whereas 2 E-wings is 30. Corran+Adar simply looks better on paper at that point, because you don't have to add an FC to get your 2 4 dice snipes, plus you've not used up other squadron points to get the Snipe. But you do have to specifically build for Corran because he becomes in danger of being locked during the ship phase itself, or during the squadron phase if you cannot activate him first and move off. The 2 E-wings also give you a bit more immediately control during the squadron activation, though you could always play Corran+E-wing for slightly better effect.

If your facing a squad, with scatter, death by a thousand cuts is a better strategy that adding dice.

Cause you know in that moment when you roll that desperately needed accuracy.... youll also roll no damage.

Or you'll roll all damage and no accs

Or all accs

Or all crits

Or any thing other than what you want.

Wedge Antilles rolling 6 accuracies has scarred me for life in that regard.

And wedge did that to me twice in one game.

37 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Nope. In fact, the specific fleet I've been using to try them out also includes Hera. But then you're looking at 28+30 = 58 points for 2x3-dice shots. Which isn't going to alpha strike much.

It's great at getting alpha'd though! Isn't that something

3 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

If your facing a squad, with scatter, death by a thousand cuts is a better strategy that adding dice.

There's a bit of truth to this, but you really start to lose efficiency versus the other squads that you could take if you're taking 4 E-wings just to paper cut out Dengar. Sure, your odds of rolling no accuracy make that attack very painful, but you can get them to fairly reliable numbers. For example, on 4 dice, the odds of NOT having an accuracy are .316. That's pretty significant, probably not something you want to count on just by itself, but that's also why you add Toryn: .237. You're going to have bad dice rolls, but that's where you really bank on it. There's also some possibility that there is a different squadron you would rather strike at if you don't think you can get Jan/Dengar, but which could seriously cripple the opposing list. Also, for as many times as Imperial players have Saber/Jendon, just being able to pop shots at something with Counter is good utility. They are usually counting on those counter rolls, otherwise, they'd be taking different units.

But I do think there is a cap on the utility you get on the points/snipe, and like Ard pointed out, you run into the problem of a brute force approach really looking like X-wings were better. E-wings have to be the finesse approach.

1 minute ago, Vergilius said:

There's a bit of truth to this, but you really start to lose efficiency versus the other squads that you could take if you're taking 4 E-wings just to paper cut out Dengar. Sure, your odds of rolling no accuracy make that attack very painful, but you can get them to fairly reliable numbers. For example, on 4 dice, the odds of NOT having an accuracy are .316. That's pretty significant, probably not something you want to count on just by itself, but that's also why you add Toryn: .237. You're going to have bad dice rolls, but that's where you really bank on it. There's also some possibility that there is a different squadron you would rather strike at if you don't think you can get Jan/Dengar, but which could seriously cripple the opposing list. Also, for as many times as Imperial players have Saber/Jendon, just being able to pop shots at something with Counter is good utility. They are usually counting on those counter rolls, otherwise, they'd be taking different units.

But I do think there is a cap on the utility you get on the points/snipe, and like Ard pointed out, you run into the problem of a brute force approach really looking like X-wings were better. E-wings have to be the finesse approach.

Oh yeah on paper i agree. Its more my experience with large dice rolls being poor and at least with multiple small rolls i can get rid of their scatter or push a little damage through.

I have been moving away from Xs and Es though recently. A force of A wings to intercept a target and a few YT1300s to do the rest is amazing in taking out larger forces.

I had great results with a X-Wing/E-Wing/mixed bomber force last game i played. E-Wing's started the party with snipe, my opponent rushed in TIE's, and my X-Wing escorts took the fire while the combined firepower of my E-Wing's and X-Wing's started dropping TIE's left and right.

This is the fleet I used them with and I absolutely love E-Wings. It took 1st or 2nd (it was quite some time ago) in a kit tournament, and 1st in an escalation tournament where I added Yavaris and 2 Lancers at 500 points.

It's a funny looking list, but it follows my own tenants when building a list - objective synergy, commander synergy, ship/squad synergy. All 3 objectives focus on scoring points via squads. PS and SP also score from the ships. Everything work with Dodonna, with TRC changing to crits, and bombers to deal damage. Lastly, there is a lot of synergy between the ships and squads. Toryn, BCC, Norra, GH, Biggs, FC. You guys get it.

The E-Wings really make this list feel like you can take on anything. X-Wings are great and all, but once you get past 3 you're kinda maxing out. The E-Wings are much faster and have a longer range which allows you to chase squads, or support your X-Wings by taking out key players without getting engaged. Since FC stacks on Snipe, plus Toryn, I'm getting 10 dice to Snipe with. And when there aren't any squads to attack, they have bomber to benefit from BCC.

Based on my own experience, 2 is definitely worth it if you're making a mixed bomber fleet. Yea, they don't hit like a B-Wing on a ship, but you also won't be getting you're *** kicked by Sloane Aces. If you take any more than 2, you're wasting points. Corran is also a waste. 22 points for +1 Snipe and Rogue? Just take Flight Controllers and an E-Wing for 21 points. It's the same thing minus the tokens. You also shouldn't primarily utilize them for Snipe, since E-Wings hit surprisingly hard with their standard 4 blue+1 FC+1 Toryn reroll.

They are really fun. You just have to use your judgement on how to use them effectively since they have an amazing stat line for 15 points.

Name: Dodonna Red Bomber Dice
Faction: Rebel
Commander: General Dodonna

Assault: Precision Strike
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
• Gallant Haven (8)
= 91 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• General Dodonna (20)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Jaina's Light (2)
= 73 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 51 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Toryn Farr (7)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Bright Hope (2)
= 32 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Bomber Command Center (8)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 30 Points

Squadrons:
• Jan Ors (19)
• Norra Wexley (17)
• Biggs Darklighter (19)
• 2 x E-wing Squadron (30)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
• Gold Squadron (12)
= 123 Points

Total Points: 400

After thinking on it some more, I've got more to say.

E-Wings are not your first pick squads. If you want bombers, you take B-Wings and Y-Wings. If you want a fighter, you take X-Wings and A-Wings. E's are the refinement squadron. After you played your list a few times, you might find you need more anti-squadron firepower, but you already have 3 X-Wings and they aren't cutting it. Grab an E-Wing because they can sit behind the X's and attack. Or maybe you realize A-Wings don't work well with X-Wings. E-Wings do.

You should never upgrade an X-Wing to an E-wing. If this is what you're doing, no wonder you're questioning how useful they are. Paying 2 more points just to get engaged and roll 4 dice...yipee.

You'll notice a trend by now. X-Wings and E-Wings. 2 X's and 2 E's is 46 points. 2 deployments, bomber, 20 blue dice, 6 Snipe. And the cheap investment protects the expensive one. I really think X-Wings should be the first addition to you list if you need anti-squad power, and then add E-Wings later. Refinement.

Solo E-wings are better off being Tycho+Shara. Speed 4+Snipe is about the same range as 5+1 from Tycho and Shara. And the same dice. But the aces will live longer.

Don't take more than 2. Any extra are better off as A-Wings. Same as above, but better anti-ship dice. E-Wings get expensive as well.

E-Wings are flipping amazing with Yavaris. FCT + Snipe is a hilariously huge radius to double tap from. Poo poo all over Counter and Escort with that.

Norra and E-Wings supported by BCC is as effective as Y-Wings. 3 die facings hit for 2 damage, and 5 facings hit. Good enough odds IMO. And you still have the firepower of an X-Wing.

Honestly, I don't think they are going to be competitive like other squads are. I play with them because they are fun, and I think it's hilarious to bomber ships with loads of red dice.

Pretty much as has been said. They are pretty specialised.

I have found them work with hera and a flight controller af2 with toryn. You snipe in the squad phase with hera then follow up first activation and run away.

9 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

I have never seen anybody use this POS successfully. At least, not in a role that X-wings couldn't have done just as well and cheaper.

Best I can figure is a sort of late game pseudo-rogue for antisquadron. That seems pretty trivial for 2 points.

The extended threat range is nice too, but doesn't actually help against speed 5 unless the opponent screws it up: distance 5+1 is (slightly) longer than distance 4+2. So, in terms of the alpha strike, it kinda sits in a nebulous place between speed 4 and speed 5, but only for the purposes of shooting, not of pinning.

Sure it's nice for pot shots at Intel when it comes up, but realistically all it does is force the escorts to spread slightly further apart to keep the Intel safe. Which is not nothing , but seems kinda... not worth it.

So all of this makes me think it must work best as a component of a multifaceted squadron build. I just have no idea what that might look like. Maybe a 2 or 3 E's and a couple of YT-2400's? Shara? B-wings? Ketsu??

I feel like if you're bringing E-wings, you're going for a kill-the-squadrons squadron defense, but they don't actually kill squadrons all that fast. Or, if they engage to kill faster, they're not getting much use out of that Snipe they're paying for.

It just seems like they're best against unactivated non-rogue squadrons, which... I mean, I guess if that's something you're running into a lot, then, more power to you? But that's not something I see a lot of myself.

I did some playtesting with E-wings a while back. Just to try out some of the "new" wave 5 squads as I waited for w6.

I worked both with generics and aces.

I found them to be quite good.

I settled for mixing them with some VCXs and Lancers, with Jan bracing them up.

Not a lot of escorts - instead I opted to use the same principle I use with Sloane: present them with a bunch of squads there they want to shoot everything. First.

Anyway, what I took away from my testing:

- you need multiples. Two is probably too little. Three is maybe the right number.

- they are fast and have long threat range, so you want relay and often intel

- you need BCC, otherwise they have no secondary purpose

- like ALL rebel squads they really want Yavaris and Toryn Farr

My conclusion:

Individually E-wings are pretty good actually. And in packs of 3 they are really great.

HOWEVER, they lack some of the insane synergy you can get from other squads. The X-wing is a much worse squad IMO, but it has such good synergy with Jan, Jamming field and GH - and Biggs. And YT1300s. And... you get the picture.

They also lack ship-killing potential. Basically they are X-wings. Not bad, but not all that good. I tried adding Norra, and it was OK, as you might expect. But compared to Bees, Golds, Ten, Luke etc. they are just pure trash.

And I think that's what killed them for me in the end. Lack of insane, op synergy, of the kind GHY can provide for both escort balls and bombers.

BUt Corran Horn, esp with Adar Tallon, is something I'd consider taking in a competitive build.