Hey, I was wondering if the Jumpmaster 5000 and the YT-2400 Light Freighter are similar class ships for 2 different faction?
If so: Has Imperial a version of it too
If not: what can de JM5K be compared with then?
PS. sorry for starting a thread on this small question
9 minutes ago, Wookiee_Slayer said:Hey, I was wondering if the Jumpmaster 5000 and the YT-2400 Light Freighter are similar class ships for 2 different faction?
If so: Has Imperial a version of it too
If not: what can de JM5K be compared with then?
PS. sorry for starting a thread on this small question
I’d say sorta, and I think the Firespray was the Imperial version.
On paper, I would say yes, they are similar classes ships. On the table, the behave very differently.
No, the Imps do not have an equivalent ship. The closest to the YT-24 and Jumpmaster is the Deci, which started the ultra heavy ship class, and the Firespray, whose arc locked nature and no native repositioning make it very dissimilar to the subjects.
Well, the YT-2400 is a light freighter, and the Jumpmaster is a scout ship. So they're a little different. But they have similar behavior in combat.
The Jumpmaster is actually more thematic without torps or a droid, in the actual Legends canon, they didn't have either (Dengar added those to the Punishing One). According to Edge of the Empire, the only thing Jumpmasters were used for (other than Dengar's) was scouting out new hyperspace lanes. YT-2400s are much more multipurpose, because they apparently store a lot more and move a lot faster than Jumpmasters.
Sadly, the Empire doesn't have a lot of either. The TIE Scout is much smaller than the Jumpmaster, and most Imperial cargo is moved around by shuttles. One possibility is the Sentinel-Class Landing Craft, but that one doesn't have turrets like the YT-2400.
Imps dont have a large ship that even remotely competes with just about any other large ship in rebel/scum.
Decimater is practically 10pts more expensive for optimal potency and its only "roughly even" to its 10pt cheaper counterparts across the board. Which means the buddy is weaker.
Upsilon has niche use but in general its too expensive for a support ship and lacks the dial to be a powerhouse.
The others....dont mention the others....
24 minutes ago, SabineKey said:On paper, I would say yes, they are similar classes ships. On the table, the behave very differently.
^Ok so they have a different style
23 minutes ago, Kieransi said:Well, the YT-2400 is a light freighter, and the Jumpmaster is a scout ship. So they're a little different. But they have similar behavior in combat.
^ So they fight the same...
Wait what? @SabineKey did you mean flying or fighting or both?
And what about what Kieransi said? Did you mean In canon/legends or in the X-wing Miniatures Game ?
I’m all confused too.
The JM5K has four good pilots. They cater to different play styles. The PS 3 is best now as a bumper, a highly maneuverable, low-PS, large base ship that you can use to block enemy ships. Manaroo does that, plus some support. Dengar and Tel generally fly with the title, and become the big damage-dealing turret if your list.
The YT has one good pilot. Maybe one and a half; Leebo can be decent. But if you’re flying it, you’re almost certainly flying Dash with the title and HLC. That makes for one big kiting damage dealing ship. It’s vaguely similar to Dengar I guess, but Dengar prefers more of a joust while Dash prefers to stay at long range, sniping back. The low PS YT’s would fly like the low PS Jumpmasters, if they were even vaguely close to being well costed.
Imperials don’t really have an equivalent. The Decimator is sorta like Dash, except it prefers to dive in and dodge arcs rather than kiting. The Firespray is just bad.
I was thinking about the base chassis compared to each other. Both have barrel roll, crew slot, illicit slot, 10 HP, good dial, and a 2-dice turret. I was kind of assuming the OP was talking about fluff/extended universe rather than the game.
In terms of meta, Dash and Dengar's abilities make them play very differently.
4 minutes ago, Wookiee_Slayer said:^Ok so they have a different style
^ So they fight the same...
Wait what? @SabineKey did you mean flying or fighting or both?
And what about what Kieransi said? Did you mean In canon/legends or in the X-wing Miniatures Game ?
Both, for me. (Also going by gameplay rather than in universe).
Flying is different because of how wonky the Jumpmaster dial is. It's a great dial, but has some wrinkles that need to be accounted for. The YT-24's dial is super open and can go just about any direction, though things can get a little more iffy if it needs to do greens.
For fighting, I'm drawing on historical data for what was considered good for both ships. If we look at the Jumpmaster, we actually see a fair amount of concern with the front arc, as Dengar wants arc for his ability and torp boats (whether Scouts or Tel) need it for ordinance shots. Manaroo is the only one that I would feel is solely a turreted ship. The nerf has changed some of this, but what I've been seeing of their use lately has been Dengar (who still cares about arc) and Bumpmasters, who are far more in your face than I have seen YT-24s flown.
For the YT-24, the main data point I am drawing from is HLC Dash. He rarely cares about arc and is primarily concerned with keeping enemies out of range one, with range three being best. Now for YT-24s using a Cannon like the Mangler, it becomes a more traditional turreted ship, and do more resemble the play style of Manaroo and a non-torp Tel. But both of those ship styles don't tend to be as popular (at least from what I've seen), so I didn't give them that much weight when considering my answer.
7 minutes ago, Kieransi said:I was thinking about the base chassis compared to each other. Both have barrel roll, crew slot, illicit slot, 10 HP, good dial, and a 2-dice turret. I was kind of assuming the OP was talking about fluff/extended universe rather than the game.
In terms of meta, Dash and Dengar's abilities make them play very differently.
To further be clear, this is what I meant by on paper. They have similar stats and slots, making it look like they should behave similarly.
14 minutes ago, Kieransi said:I was thinking about the base chassis compared to each other. Both have barrel roll, crew slot, illicit slot, 10 HP, good dial, and a 2-dice turret.
Haha that is exactly the reason I asked this question in the first place
.
8 minutes ago, SabineKey said:Both, for me. (Also going by gameplay rather than in universe).
Flying is different because of how wonky the Jumpmaster dial is. It's a great dial, but has some wrinkles that need to be accounted for. The YT-24's dial is super open and can go just about any direction, though things can get a little more iffy if it needs to do greens.
For fighting, I'm drawing on historical data for what was considered good for both ships. If we look at the Jumpmaster, we actually see a fair amount of concern with the front arc, as Dengar wants arc for his ability and torp boats (whether Scouts or Tel) need it for ordinance shots. Manaroo is the only one that I would feel is solely a turreted ship. The nerf has changed some of this, but what I've been seeing of their use lately has been Dengar (who still cares about arc) and Bumpmasters, who are far more in your face than I have seen YT-24s flown.
For the YT-24, the main data point I am drawing from is HLC Dash. He rarely cares about arc and is primarily concerned with keeping enemies out of range one, with range three being best. Now for YT-24s using a Cannon like the Mangler, it becomes a more traditional turreted ship, and do more resemble the play style of Manaroo and a non-torp Tel. But both of those ship styles don't tend to be as popular (at least from what I've seen), so I didn't give them that much weight when considering my answer.
Thanks for the detailed info! This will help with flying either of 'em I think.
I also understand both of your statements now! Cheers!
Oh, this just popped into my mind: Can the one (doesnt matter which) counter the other (again doesnt matter which).
So:
YT-2400 = Jumpmaster 5000
YT-2400 > Jumpmaster 5000
YT-2400 < Jumpmaster 5000
Feel free to write down how you came to the conclusion, but if you dont like putting efford in an answer (JK of course!) just do it the short way
.
Ofc the empire doesn't have one. But that doesn't bother FFG to give Scum and Rebels arcdodgers, or cheap 12 ships, or reload, or anything that the empire might have for its own.
You know what else we don't have?
Decent bombers.
Any viable ordnance carriers with 3 attack to benefit from GC.
Regen.
Astromechs slots.
Illicit slots.
Bombing crews (or ships that could equip them).
But you know what we DO have?
Most 2 attack ships
The only ships without the target lock action
Least crew upgrades (or slots). Scum has way more, even though they are 5 waves behind imperials.
Now, true we have the most evade actions and the most arc dodgers... But while other factions have lesser versions of our niche (you know, as much as you can call Fenn Rau a lesser arc dodger) we don't have ANY regen, or slots only available to us.
Not even mentioning that the two main strengths of the faction are arc dodging and swarms. Ever since release the average fire arc in the game has increased (due to rebel and scum ships, naturally) so arcs matter less and less, and swarms are basically unplayable due to harpoons.
So yeah. Surprise surprise the empire has fewer toys. What a strange occurrence...
2 hours ago, Wookiee_Slayer said:Oh, this just popped into my mind: Can the one (doesnt matter which) counter the other (again doesnt matter which).
So:
YT-2400 = Jumpmaster 5000
YT-2400 > Jumpmaster 5000
YT-2400 < Jumpmaster 5000
Feel free to write down how you came to the conclusion, but if you dont like putting efford in an answer (JK of course!) just do it the short way
It's so much cheaper, I think that the Jump still has the YT beat as a ship. Triple jumps can do some fun stuff, Triple YT-2400s isn't very good. But from a pure meta ranking, the YT is still better, just because Dash is ranked 7th in terms of best pilots but the first Jump (scout) is ranked 27th. Granted Dash is the only truly great YT-2400 pilot, but from that perspective, it's a better ship.
Edited by KieransiI'm with @Kieransi on this one. In general, the Jumpmaster beats the YT-24. Dash is an exception, but I'd be interested to see if that persists the further we get from the Jumpmaster nerf.
3 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:Ofc the empire doesn't have one. But that doesn't bother FFG to give Scum and Rebels arcdodgers, or cheap 12 ships, or reload, or anything that the empire might have for its own.
You know what else we don't have?
Decent bombers.
Any viable ordnance carriers with 3 attack to benefit from GC.
Regen.
Astromechs slots.
Illicit slots.
Bombing crews (or ships that could equip them).
But you know what we DO have?
Most 2 attack ships
The only ships without the target lock action
Least crew upgrades (or slots). Scum has way more, even though they are 5 waves behind imperials.
Now, true we have the most evade actions and the most arc dodgers... But while other factions have lesser versions of our niche (you know, as much as you can call Fenn Rau a lesser arc dodger) we don't have ANY regen, or slots only available to us.
Not even mentioning that the two main strengths of the faction are arc dodging and swarms. Ever since release the average fire arc in the game has increased (due to rebel and scum ships, naturally) so arcs matter less and less, and swarms are basically unplayable due to harpoons.
So yeah. Surprise surprise the empire has fewer toys. What a strange occurrence...
I wish they'd at least give the Imperial Firesprays the Illicit upgrade and/or the option to fly the Scum versions. Personally I wish FFG had made the Scum ships a "mercenary" faction that either side could equip up to a certain squad point limit (40-60) but that's just me.
I would have loved for the Bounty hunter ships to cross over to the Imperial side . That could have address some of the balancing issues and shared some of Scum power creep with Imperials which had the smallest slice of power pie for the past several waves .
But that being said Devs only know of one solution and that has got the F-wing and R-wing Rathtars all riled up, and that is nerf.
So now the forum is all Nerf this and nerf that. Problem with the meta there is only one solution, you know I have a hammer that ship looks like a nail.
Edited by Marinealver7 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:The only ships without the target lock action
Technically not true anymore - both Auzitucks and Attack Shuttles lack target lock (and rebel TIEs, but given that they're knock-off imperial ships you can ignore them)
3 hours ago, impspy said:I wish they'd at least give the Imperial Firesprays the Illicit upgrade and/or the option to fly the Scum versions. Personally I wish FFG had made the Scum ships a "mercenary" faction that either side could equip up to a certain squad point limit (40-60) but that's just me.
The 33 point Bounty Hunter could do nicely with a kick in power. It should be okay - the Imperial Only crew like rebel captive and Kallus do make a ship different but not massively worse than the scum versions - but the Illicit slot has grown up to be one of the best and the unique imperial pilots are just no match for their scum equivalents.
As to a YT-2400 equivalent....
The VT-49 Decimator is the Imperial YT-1300 equivalent from Star Wars Galaxies.
The other turreted ship from Galaxies was the YE-4 Gunship; a sort of turret-armed lambda refit. It has the usual lambda weapons, plus a heavy under-nose turret (mobile arc?) and some dorsal light turrets - making it "Lambda sized" (5 hull, 5 shields, 1 agility) might work, and a few imperial only large ship cards could give the lambda and firespray (and to a lesser extent the decimator and upsilon) a bit of a buff and shine.
I think that imperials are indeed in need of more toys. Scum has had a new gimmick every wave or at least a new cool crew for 1 point. I think FFG has to put down their Nerfhammer and start using their Buffhammer! Kind of how they took the efford to make both the Starviper and Kihraxz better in GFH.
3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:Technically not true anymore - both Auzitucks and Attack Shuttles lack target lock (and rebel TIEs, but given that they're knock-off imperial ships you can ignore them)
The 33 point Bounty Hunter could do nicely with a kick in power. It should be okay - the Imperial Only crew like rebel captive and Kallus do make a ship different but not massively worse than the scum versions - but the Illicit slot has grown up to be one of the best and the unique imperial pilots are just no match for their scum equivalents.
As to a YT-2400 equivalent....
The VT-49 Decimator is the Imperial YT-1300 equivalent from Star Wars Galaxies.
The other turreted ship from Galaxies was the YE-4 Gunship; a sort of turret-armed lambda refit. It has the usual lambda weapons, plus a heavy under-nose turret (mobile arc?) and some dorsal light turrets - making it "Lambda sized" (5 hull, 5 shields, 1 agility) might work, and a few imperial only large ship cards could give the lambda and firespray (and to a lesser extent the decimator and upsilon) a bit of a buff and shine.
The problem is precisely that we don't have agile 2 agility large ships, because we do have clumsy slow shuttles. They are just not good.
13 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:The problem is precisely that we don't have agile 2 agility large ships, because we do have clumsy slow shuttles. They are just not good.
Exactly. Imagine:
21 hours ago, Kieransi said:Well, the YT-2400 is a light freighter, and the Jumpmaster is a scout ship. So they're a little different. But they have similar behavior in combat.
The Jumpmaster is actually more thematic without torps or a droid, in the actual Legends canon, they didn't have either (Dengar added those to the Punishing One). According to Edge of the Empire, the only thing Jumpmasters were used for (other than Dengar's) was scouting out new hyperspace lanes. YT-2400s are much more multipurpose, because they apparently store a lot more and move a lot faster than Jumpmasters.
Sadly, the Empire doesn't have a lot of either. The TIE Scout is much smaller than the Jumpmaster, and most Imperial cargo is moved around by shuttles. One possibility is the Sentinel-Class Landing Craft, but that one doesn't have turrets like the YT-2400.
Actually the Sentinel should have a turret slot as well, just no primary weapon turret. It's pretty close to the Upsilon shuttle in many ways, minus the coordinate + a turret slot. Ironically that way it would see most likely table time, when you still get shots once your devastating main arc is not on target anymore.
2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:Exactly. Imagine:
- It has a dial with red 2 turns and white 3 turns, and barrel roll, a mobile arc and a cannon slot
- Rather than being agility 2 it's agility 1 with a modification included that boosts evasive dice by one and makes hard turns white, which is also equippable by Lambdas, giving them an actually decent dial
- It comes with a half-decent cannon (basically a sawn-off mangler) whose ability includes being able to be fired out of mobile or auxiliary arc (good for firesprays, and especially good for Krassis and both versions of Kath scarlet)
These are the advantages of a large based TIE, like the reaper. LWF, TIE mk. II... These could be really strong on an agile ship.
2
2
6
3
Focus, target lock, boost
Crew, crew, cannon
Ps 4 ept generic 23 pts (death trooper pilot)
Maybe a title that allows you to take a boost action before revealing maneuvers.
Dial:
1 white turns
1 white banks
1 green straight
2 green turns
2 green banks
2 green straight
3 white banks
3 white turns
3 green straight
3 red talons
4 white straight
Krennic crew
Imp only
When attacking a ship in your firing arc, you may spend a target lock to roll 1 additional attack dice.
2 pts
This is what we need