Kari Wraithstalker - Melee Attack Ability. Use without being engaged?

By Jonbizzle21, in Runewars Rules Questions

I just got wiped by someone who used Kari's Melee Stance without being engaged. They used her surge ability and claimed she didnt need to be engaged for a melee attack to be able to do the secondary ranged attack.

Also, can she really stackup that ranged part of damage up to 12 hits if she rolls 3 surges?! Thats insane!

Help... I'm starting to doubt the power of the undead.

Rules Reference: 10.2 Step 2—Choose Target: The attacker chooses an enemy unit as the target of the attack. That enemy unit is the defender. • If the attacker is performing a melee attack (?) action, he must be engaged with the defender

5 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

Rules Reference: 10.2 Step 2—Choose Target: The attacker chooses an enemy unit as the target of the attack. That enemy unit is the defender. • If the attacker is performing a melee attack (?) action, he must be engaged with the defender

I don't think the question is "Does he have to be engaged to perform a melee attack?" It's "Does he have to perform a melee attack to activate Kari's special ability?" Which I believe is "Yes".

Also, 3 surges would be 6 damage, not 12. Is he doubling the damage because of "Brutal"?

But it's a melee attack ability only? She has to perform a melee attack to trigger it? There's a picture of swords on it ?

Yes, I think his opponent is just selecting "melee attack" on his action dial and activating the secondary ability without actually being engaged.

She has to be engaged with the target of her melee attack in order to roll any dice, so if she isn't engaged, she doesn't perform a melee attack. Without the melee attack, she rolls no dice. Without dice, she has no surges. There is no way to use her ability the way your opponent was.

Kari is good, but not THAT good.

19 minutes ago, Reddog1134 said:

I don't think the question is "Does he have to be engaged to perform a melee attack?" It's "Does he have to perform a melee attack to activate Kari's special ability?" Which I believe is "Yes".

Also, 3 surges would be 6 damage, not 12. Is he doubling the damage because of "Brutal"?

Yes, doubling the surges (2 from dice roll and 1 from modifier). Which would equal 6 surges total from brutal, eqauling 12 hits.

10 minutes ago, Jonbizzle21 said:

Yes, doubling the surges (2 from dice roll and 1 from modifier). Which would equal 6 surges total from brutal, eqauling 12 hits.

Brutal increases your threat. Threat determines how much damage you do for each Burst icon you roll. It has no effect on surge abilities.

Her surge ability can hit units she is not engaged with, but she needs to be making a melee attack against a unit she is engaged with.

Also, brutal increases your threat. Each hit result on the dice deals damage equal to your threat. Anything that says it deals damage straight doesn't interact with your threat or the brutal keyword.

2 hours ago, Jonbizzle21 said:

Yes, doubling the surges (2 from dice roll and 1 from modifier). Which would equal 6 surges total from brutal, eqauling 12 hits.

You don't double the dice, you double the multiply the hits by threat during the damage pool phase. Surges and mortal strikes are spent prior, morale after (none of these icons multiply).

Thanks for all of this clarification. This game could have been ruined for me if y'all hadnt helped.

I will take the opportunity to ask something about Kari. The range of her ability is from the unit engaged with her or from herself?

Wow cant really believe that someone would cheat/misunderstand Karis ability like that. Its powerful enough when used as intended.

To sum up:

- If you select melee attack on your dial, but are not engaged (when revealing), nothing happens. The attack is cancelled, so you dont get to roll dice, and you dont get to spend surges.

- Karis ability is not an attack. It says "Deal x damage" to another enemy at range 1-5. During an attack you calculate damage by multiplying your threat by hit results. Here the ability tells you the exact amount of damage. Kare can deal a max of 10 damage rolling a blue and white (4 surges from dice and 1 from dial).

Beleive me, her ability is still very powerful. With fortunas dice, she easily takes out 1/3 of the opponents units by her self, if she can find useable melee targets and get in combat.
The enemy can only avoid her ability by being outside range 5 (LoS not needed)

Edited by Heilbuth
16 minutes ago, Athelin said:

I will take the opportunity to ask something about Kari. The range of her ability is from the unit engaged with her or from herself?

From herself

18 hours ago, Jonbizzle21 said:

Help... I'm starting to doubt the power of the undead.

Try Death Knights with the Power Glove (Obcasium's Gauntlet) or Violent Maro with Fortuna's Dice. ;-)