I would say armada (which is my favorite game) learned a lot from x wing and we got a better game in armada. I expect that Legion learned from both games and will be great.

It's good to hear Armada was a progression. That's why Legion interests me, a chance to build it from the ground up.

I look at it this way. The figures will allow me to play the FFG system and the old Star Wars Minatures ruleset, so win win. Especially if they are planning on bringing out more races/forces

I'd imagine Legion would have also learned at least a few rules related things from Runewars, but we shall see.

Well, you’ve all managed to convince me that if I can find the folks to play casually often enough, I can probably make it happen.

i won’t do any tournaments or OP for it though. I cannot let it become a second X-Wing, which i am still not giving up.

Tournaments killed X-Wing for me, so i really don't blame you!

20 minutes ago, Extropia said:

Tournaments killed X-Wing for me, so i really don't blame you!

Well, for me it’s just a matter of affording multiple rat races. I actually really enjoy tournament X-Wing and have no complaints (well nothing major, we all have stuff we don’t like). But I don’t want to do the same thing times two.

if my investment stays relevant for longer periods of time such that I won’t be in an arms race for pickup games, I’ll be a lot happier. If it becomes my second X-Wing, I can’t let it happen.

I just got burnt out and sick of the stale metas every wave unfortunately. Once i started going to Regionals and the like where 50%+ of the lists were minor variations of the same thing....i just got bored.

Still a good game though.

9 hours ago, Ralgon said:

Now we have legion, and while i'm not really sure about how well the dice/surge asymmetry and point efficiency is going to work out in the factions balance just yet, the rest looks pretty on point and a leap forwards from previous ffg titles.

The dice/ surge mechanic is just a way to transplant normal dice chances onto the good ol' FFG custom dice tradition. Lets look at the attack dice.

D8's, 8 is always a crit

White: 6+, 7+

Black: 4+, 5+

Red: 2+, 3+

If you want 8+ "when this unit is attacking after rolling attack dice, cancel all hits and surges. Then turn all criticals into hits."

The surge to crit conversion is there to show that the unit is good at finding weak spots. The defense dice convert the same way onto d6's.

double post

10 hours ago, Ralgon said:

It did and didn't. The powercreep and card sharing issues were still there, but it refined a lot (activations, command dials, movement templates)

Then runewars refined it more.

Now we have legion, and while i'm not really sure about how well the dice/surge asymmetry and point efficiency is going to work out in the factions balance just yet, the rest looks pretty on point and a leap forwards from previous ffg titles.

Power creep? Dodonna was a core set commander still extremely common. All of the ships see plenty of play. 90+% of squadrons are used. There most common upgrades are from wave 2, though a high percentage of cards have a place in the game.

Wave 6 was one of the weaker waves in the game.

12 hours ago, Extropia said:

Right, so by definition this game has too. I’m not saying it’s the ONLY game that learnt from X-Wing....this one has also learnt from Armada, and even DUST.

Wait....unless you’re saying that Armada didn’t learn anything? In which case I entirely disagree.

I misread your post thought you were saying they hadn't learned anything

This is kind of like complaining that Wrath of the Lich King isn't "relevant" any more after 7 years.

All I know is I’m still rocking three t-65 lists in x wing. So many almost-wins! There’s a lot more going on in Legion as well: scenarios, terrain, commanders, different unit types, etc... that allow for (hopefully) ways to capitalize on different builds whatever the meta becomes. My wish is that the difference in unit balance is not as severe and moreover/therefore can be overcome by player agency during the game.

I think it will be less an issue of units losing relevancy but rather commanders losing relevancy. At some point they will come out with a commander whose abilities are just a little too useful.

7 minutes ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

I think it will be less an issue of units losing relevancy but rather commanders losing relevancy. At some point they will come out with a commander whose abilities are just a little too useful.

Agreed. Also the heavy's may see some earlier take up then drop off as new specialist and heavy units are released.

We haven't even seen any specialist yet!

i would guess 2 years

FFG learned a lot. We most likely won't need to buy out of faction. Many units will maintain relevance too.

5 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

I think it will be less an issue of units losing relevancy but rather commanders losing relevancy. At some point they will come out with a commander whose abilities are just a little too useful.

From my experience with Armada the commanders may move out and back in, perhaps the initial period where they were new created a certain type of choices that would slowly move out of favour, then perhaps in a future wave a ship came out that moved them back into favour. So with each wave the evolution of what was in or out could easily revisit old units and commanders.

8 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

This is kind of like complaining that Wrath of the Lich King isn't "relevant" any more after 7 years.

Not even close. With RPG expansions the intent is grow the power of the PC's and the NPC's to match. With a wargame the idea is to maintain balance and fill gaps or move into new areas of design space.