36 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

I won the last store champs I went to with a three glad list....but arguably, that was before Sloane. Altough I've modified that very same list to include her, and haven't lost with it yet.

Glad, Sloane, apt, sfo, oe

glad, demo, apt, oe, Intel officer

glad, insidious, apt, oe, sfo

goz, expanded hangars, comms net

goz, expanded hangars

Marek plus five Defenders

most wanted, dangerous territory, hyperspace assault

wouldn't dropping jendon into this list make it even stronger? ****, now I want to try it....

I'm in the camp of "The Raider is already good for what it does, and giving the Gladiator a second Ordnance Slot doesn't mean Flechettes will be taken, since they can never trigger, as the Gladiator variants have Blue Anti-Squadron Dice only... You'll most likrly see 'Kill Upgrade + ExRacks'..."

I mean, to further clarify my Raider point...

I feel there are two schools of thought when it comes to Raider effectiveness (in the anti-squadron department)... Either they basically gun down all over squadrons, or they suffer from the "they're not Demo so they get killed by bombers while trying to kill bombers..."

By virtue of the fact that they already can have flechettes, and that is a problem... A Second ordnance slot isn't going to solve it... IF it is a problem for you...

I still have shaking memories from that guy up at E-Cloud-City who parked Instigator on a debris field, locking down all of my Y-Wings and just potshooting them, until an Anti-Squadron Demo was able to roll up and delete my 100 points of Bombers...

What. Double ordnance?

Flechettes are the last thing I'd put on a Glad if it had 2 ordnance spots.

43 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

wouldn't dropping jendon into this list make it even stronger? ****, now I want to try it....

No. I fly everything at speed two minimum, going to speed three. The squadrons hug the ships fairly close, and the flotillas push them. By turn two, three at minimum, I'm gonna have my entire fleet, which I fly in very close formation, all up in the enemy's face. Relay is not needed for my play style, the Defenders are used as very close cover and support, and it's very rare for them to be out of range of a ship.

This comes to 400 on the nose, and I dropping something for Jendon would mess the symmetry...lol

1 minute ago, Darth Lupine said:

No. I fly everything at speed two minimum, going to speed three. The squadrons hug the ships fairly close, and the flotillas push them. By turn two, three at minimum, I'm gonna have my entire fleet, which I fly in very close formation, all up in the enemy's face. Relay is not needed for my play style, the Defenders are used as very close cover and support, and it's very rare for them to be out of range of a ship.

The point about Jendon is Maarek shooting twice is better than Maarek and a Defender shooting once each, I think.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

The point about Jendon is Maarek shooting twice is better than Maarek and a Defender shooting once each, I think.

I know Dras, and I agree, but Jendon is 4 more points than a Defender, and I have nothing I can drop elsewhere.

Just now, Darth Lupine said:

I know Dras, and I agree, but Jendon is 4 more points than a Defender, and I have nothing I can drop elsewhere.

Okay, no worries, just clarifying since you didn't mention that part - only relay.

I think id drop Hangars from the comms net to do it, personally... But my advice on imps is suspect, The list lacks at least 2 Interdictors for me to play it

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Okay, no worries, just clarifying since you didn't mention that part - only relay.

I think id drop Hangars from the comms net to do it, personally... But my advice on imps is suspect, The list lacks at least 2 Interdictors for me to play it

The hangars are there so I can push all six squadrons every turn from the flotillas, while the Glads spam nav like crazy...lol

Just now, Darth Lupine said:

The hangars are there so I can push all six squadrons every turn from the flotillas, while the Glads spam nav like crazy...lol

Quality vs Quantity call, thats all

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Quality vs Quantity call, thats all

Quantity has a quality all of its own, as Stalin once said.....lol. ??

Just now, Darth Lupine said:

Quantity has a quality all of its own, as Stalin once said.....lol. ??

Yeah, but he wouldn't be meaning something like Defenders in that mindset

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Yeah, but he wouldn't be meaning Defenders in that mindset

No, indeed not, hehe. Btw, I'd love to see what's in this Interdictor nose punch list you tout so fervently. Convince me to buy a second one....?

3 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

No, indeed not, hehe. Btw, I'd love to see what's in this Interdictor nose punch list you tout so fervently. Convince me to buy a second one....?

Well, if the release happens on time, I’ll be taking it to Hothgary Regionals on the 3rd...

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Well, if the release happens on time, I’ll be taking it to Hothgary Regionals on the 3rd...

I am down Florida way, so I doubt I'll see you there. But perhaps a batrep?

Just now, Darth Lupine said:

I am down Florida way, so I doubt I'll see you there. But perhaps a batrep?

That’s what I meant - as I am not running things, I intend to play and record the craziness in some format.

... I’m just waiting to find out if I’ll be Graveyard Shift - Tournament - Graveyard shift with no rest, or not...

33 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

No. I fly everything at speed two minimum, going to speed three. The squadrons hug the ships fairly close, and the flotillas push them. By turn two, three at minimum, I'm gonna have my entire fleet, which I fly in very close formation, all up in the enemy's face. Relay is not needed for my play style, the Defenders are used as very close cover and support, and it's very rare for them to be out of range of a ship.

This comes to 400 on the nose, and I dropping something for Jendon would mess the symmetry...lol

No, I totally get your approach here. I am a veteran of flying 2 glads and a rymer ball in previous waves. Your fleet made me remember it, and I started auto-tweaking in my mind. I would probably go a more 1-2 punch type strategy with a marek jendon backpack assault with defenders and relay, then sweep in with glads for mass dmg on token-less ships.

God, that is exactly what I do with MC30 fleets......I fly rebels too much.

11 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

Xanderf, what you are talking about is more or less a sideboard. And honestly, I could get on board with a sideboard. I’m just unsure of implementation. I think I’d like more even than what you posit. Maybe like, 100 points of sideboard. I dunno.

Sideboard works in magic because in a matchup you play best of 3. Inn armada you play that person then on to the next. And in magic, depending on format you don't see your opponents entire deck. In armada you do. So if you know everything in your opponents fleet you can sideboard perfectly, which is cheese.

I think the intention in Armada is that you bring your sideboard with you, ie upgrades that might not get used every match but are amazing in the matchup when you do use them. People see this as a bug. I see it as crucial, one of the things that makes fleet building interesting.

Do we really want upgrades that are good in every circumstance? Or ships with slots that allow it to bring everything it could ever possibly need?

5 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

Sideboard works in magic because in a matchup you play best of 3. Inn armada you play that person then on to the next. And in magic, depending on format you don't see your opponents entire deck. In armada you do. So if you know everything in your opponents fleet you can sideboard perfectly, which is cheese.

I think the intention in Armada is that you bring your sideboard with you, ie upgrades that might not get used every match but are amazing in the matchup when you do use them. People see this as a bug. I see it as crucial, one of the things that makes fleet building interesting.

Do we really want upgrades that are good in every circumstance? Or ships with slots that allow it to bring everything it could ever possibly need?

This.

Does the Cymoon get Strategic Officer? Intel Officer? Tua - with ews or ecm?

Some are good in some matchups, others in other matchups. Which do I prioritize?

2 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

Sideboard works in magic because in a matchup you play best of 3. Inn armada you play that person then on to the next. And in magic, depending on format you don't see your opponents entire deck. In armada you do. So if you know everything in your opponents fleet you can sideboard perfectly, which is cheese.

I think the intention in Armada is that you bring your sideboard with you, ie upgrades that might not get used every match but are amazing in the matchup when you do use them. People see this as a bug. I see it as crucial, one of the things that makes fleet building interesting.

Do we really want upgrades that are good in every circumstance? Or ships with slots that allow it to bring everything it could ever possibly need?

In Magic, you have a 60 card deck and a printed 15 card sideboard. You can only sideboard in those 15 cards that you brought for that purpose. So against some match ups, your sideboard might be useless. Similarly, allowing players to bring, say 100 points of changes to their Armada list wouldn't allow for perfect sideboarding against a random opponent.

The main issue with sideboarding is *how* you would sideboard. The way sideboarding works in Magic is that after game 1, both players go through their sideboards and may or may not substitute cards into their decks. They do this in secret, which leaves open the possibility that you sideboard to counter a threat that your opponent has actually pulled out of their deck. IQ 9000 mind games. In reality, it doesn't quite work like that, but it's a possibility.

It's going to be very hard to make that work for Armada. You could get around the secrecy problem by having both players fill out new fleet lists. Though that has its own problem. How do you verify that they really only substituted 100 points without the time-consuming process of comparing all the cards in both lists? Another problem is that cards in Magic are discrete individual things. Points in Armada are not. We say 100 points, but there are many, many ways to split that up amongst any number of cards, squadrons, or ships. This whole process would also add quite a bit of time to an already long tournament round.

What could work is to steal from the Hangar Bay concept in X-Wing. You bring X lists and before the game you and your opponent both secretly choose one of those lists to play as.

16 minutes ago, Valca said:

What could work is to steal from the Hangar Bay concept in X-Wing. You bring X lists and before the game you and your opponent both secretly choose one of those lists to play as.

This was how tournament play worked in Warmachine. Each player brought 3 lists and secretly chose one prior to the match.

I can't say I was a fan. It resulted in a lot of weird match-ups. Say you bring lists A, B, and C and I bring lists X, Y, and Z. I know that by default your list A is superior to all my lists except Z, which contains a hard counter. The problem is that list Z would not do as well against lists B or C. Do I pick list Z in the hopes that you pick list A despite knowing I have a hard counter? Do you pick list B, knowing it'll sidestep list Z?

It becomes a big head-game where you're stuck trying to pick based on what I know you know I know and it can come down to complete randomness as to who is going to start off advantaged.

1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

This was how tournament play worked in Warmachine. Each player brought 3 lists and secretly chose one prior to the match.

I can't say I was a fan. It resulted in a lot of weird match-ups. Say you bring lists A, B, and C and I bring lists X, Y, and Z. I know that by default your list A is superior to all my lists except Z, which contains a hard counter. The problem is that list Z would not do as well against lists B or C. Do I pick list Z in the hopes that you pick list A despite knowing I have a hard counter? Do you pick list B, knowing it'll sidestep list Z?

It becomes a big head-game where you're stuck trying to pick based on what I know you know I know and it can come down to complete randomness as to who is going to start off advantaged.

Firestorm had a similar system. End of the day it just meant everyone brought 2 lists to a tournament. One "all comers" list and one "against Aquans" list. (Just like how you'd always have one anti-Cryx list for Warmahordes)

With only 2 factions in SWA I don't think there'd be enough information to go off of when picking lists unless you knew the other player already or had seen their lists.

14 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

I dont think giving Demo a second piece of ordinance is a good plan.

Make it a non-unique title.

6 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

This got me into qualifying rounds for the Vassal World Cup. Also won an SC with it and placed 3rd with a variant that had dropped a Raider for Ciena+Valen. ***** all over bomber lists because I can out activate them and I can use Demo, both Raiders, and GT off the Vic to attack squads very efficiently. I've lost maybe 3 or 4 times with this list of the 3 dozen or so times I've played it.

Name: Dual Glads + Vic
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault: Most Wanted
Defense: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation: Solar Corona

Victory II (85)
• Moff Jerjerrod (23)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 137 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Demolisher (10)
= 75 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Insidious (3)
= 68 Points

Raider I (44)
• External Racks (3)
= 47 Points

Raider I (44)
• External Racks (3)
= 47 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 399

Heck yea! nice. Did you feel that OE didn't benefit? (I've been starting to go along the same path)

51 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Heck yea! nice. Did you feel that OE didn't benefit? (I've been starting to go along the same path)

I didn't take OE on the Raiders because I didn't have the points. They are absolutely necessary on the Glads to deal consistent damage.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

I didn't take OE on the Raiders because I didn't have the points. They are absolutely necessary on the Glads to deal consistent damage.

Sorry I meant Raiders. That's where I think they ... may be optional.