2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I didn't take OE on the Raiders because I didn't have the points. They are absolutely necessary on the Glads to deal consistent damage.

How often did Insidious get used?

2 hours ago, moodswing5537 said:

How often did Insidious get used?

Maybe half the games, but it typically kills the ship when it does get to attack. I don't try to get it into the rear arc of ships but rather let my opponent navigate around Insidious. Let them make the hard choices and I'll stick to a simpler strategy.

I also use Insidious as the HSA ship because it means I have 2 huge threats. Demo in the front, Insidious in the back.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Sorry I meant Raiders. That's where I think they ... may be optional.

Yea ER kinda makes up for OE. 2 dice with rerolls or 4 dice. Obviously weaker with AA, but still good enough. They tend not to live long enough to get enough value out of OE over ER.

4 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Yea ER kinda makes up for OE. 2 dice with rerolls or 4 dice. Obviously weaker with AA, but still good enough. They tend not to live long enough to get enough value out of OE over ER.

Yeah, I was running both, but I think I only rerolled like 2 dice from 3 raiders with OE over 4 attacks... (Though, that was darn good luck there).

The card you seek is the Adaptability card from x-wing. A dual sided card that isn't terribly great by itself on either side but very nice when taken in total. For x-wing, one side gives you first move, the other first fire. Ok, that is a paraphrase, but you get the point. We need a card like that ok buff for anti ship one side, ok buff for aa on the other. Pick one side or the other each turn.

I think Flechette Torps is an important design lesson - you can create hard counters, but if their opportunity cost is so high that they cause rock paper scissors build matchups like no squads, some squads, full squads - they won't be used.

I tried @GiledPallaeon's 2 ISD ideas vs some light screen lists... and found that they worked out extremely well. (As is correct with the triangle theory), my light AA screen of Awings were largely useless and hit for blanks a lot, and were unable to meaningfully contribute enough damage. My VCX did pull some objectives, but not enough to outweigh getting rushed and killed off by the 2 ISDs.
I still think that no squad fleet has a hard time vs max squads, especially if the max squads is played with the same level of distance control skill that the ISD player is using.
And I think this is bad for the game as a whole, as simply capitalizes off of poor matchups.

17 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I think Flechette Torps is an important design lesson - you can create hard counters, but if their opportunity cost is so high that they cause rock paper scissors build matchups like no squads, some squads, full squads - they won't be used.

I tried @GiledPallaeon's 2 ISD ideas vs some light screen lists... and found that they worked out extremely well. (As is correct with the triangle theory), my light AA screen of Awings were largely useless and hit for blanks a lot, and were unable to meaningfully contribute enough damage. My VCX did pull some objectives, but not enough to outweigh getting rushed and killed off by the 2 ISDs.
I still think that no squad fleet has a hard time vs max squads, especially if the max squads is played with the same level of distance control skill that the ISD player is using.
And I think this is bad for the game as a whole, as simply capitalizes off of poor matchups.

On the flipside, that's the entire reason that the dual ISDs can do well, which is that two of those monstrous warships is a bad matchup for almost anyone. Now there are exceptions, and carefully flown mass bombers is one of those exceptions, but the entire point of that fleet is that most fleets are optimized to bring down a single ISD, and to survive its death throes. Adding a second one to the equation usually breaks most fleets. I expect that to become less true for about six months, as everyone starts trying dual Larges after Wave Heaven actually arrives, and after that about half of those people that tried it or tried fighting it will have learned some of its weaknesses, and it will become even harder after that, against those people.

In my experience, the killer for the ISDs fleets is winning deployment. You can definitely lose the game on deployment, but most deployments end relatively neutrally, because the ISD player knows he's badly outdeployed, and will have practiced around that fact, whereas it is very possible to win a game on deployment for that fleet, especially against certain archetypes (anything with only one powerful combatant and a squad ball that is less dangerous for that critical last turn you're chasing the tabling). I don't know if that helps your analysis, but those are the things I've become more aware of since I wrote my dual ISD essay.

19 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

On the flipside, that's the entire reason that the dual ISDs can do well, which is that two of those monstrous warships is a bad matchup for almost anyone. Now there are exceptions, and carefully flown mass bombers is one of those exceptions, but the entire point of that fleet is that most fleets are optimized to bring down a single ISD, and to survive its death throes. Adding a second one to the equation usually breaks most fleets. I expect that to become less true for about six months, as everyone starts trying dual Larges after Wave Heaven actually arrives, and after that about half of those people that tried it or tried fighting it will have learned some of its weaknesses, and it will become even harder after that, against those people.

In my experience, the killer for the ISDs fleets is winning deployment. You can definitely lose the game on deployment, but most deployments end relatively neutrally, because the ISD player knows he's badly outdeployed, and will have practiced around that fact, whereas it is very possible to win a game on deployment for that fleet, especially against certain archetypes (anything with only one powerful combatant and a squad ball that is less dangerous for that critical last turn you're chasing the tabling). I don't know if that helps your analysis, but those are the things I've become more aware of since I wrote my dual ISD essay.

I'll continue to discuss it in that thread actually. Its more relevant there. I like how you call it your essay. Reminds me of Machiavelli's the prince.

The thread had given me ask idea for a commander, where he would let you swap out one upgrade per ship

14 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I think Flechette Torps is an important design lesson - you can create hard counters, but if their opportunity cost is so high that they cause rock paper scissors build matchups like no squads, some squads, full squads - they won't be used.

This applies to Ordnance Pods as well. I honestly expect no one to use this card because it is restricting and a huge opportunity cost. Only 4 ships can take it, Vic I, Kuat, and both MC75s, but all 4 of those ships would rather be killing other ships instead of attacking squadrons. I love the idea of giving free AA shots to ships, but not when Ordnance is one of the best anti-ship slots in the game, and we FINALLY have it on large ships.

Early Warning System is by far a better upgrade because you can ignore part of your opponents fleet rather than waste valuable attacks, and its benefit is comparable to ECM, which makes it an excellent addition to the game.

29 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

This applies to Ordnance Pods as well. I honestly expect no one to use this card because it is restricting and a huge opportunity cost. Only 4 ships can take it, Vic I, Kuat, and both MC75s, but all 4 of those ships would rather be killing other ships instead of attacking squadrons. I love the idea of giving free AA shots to ships, but not when Ordnance is one of the best anti-ship slots in the game, and we FINALLY have it on large ships.

Early Warning System is by far a better upgrade because you can ignore part of your opponents fleet rather than waste valuable attacks, and its benefit is comparable to ECM, which makes it an excellent addition to the game.

I expect to see OP in situations where you are more limited in points, but even then probably only on the MC75 ordnance.

You want to see more specialized upgrades on things, there is a way to make that happen with the right upgrade. For example:

Auxiliary batteries
Offensive retrofit
1 point
You may equip a turbolaser, ion cannon, or ordnance upgrade to this card (for its cost) provided you already have one or more of those icons in your upgrade bar. The upgrade cannot cost more than 3 points or be discarded upon use.

You'd start seeing more Ordnance Pods, Flechette Torpedoes, and MS-1 Ion Cannons pretty quick.

misread.

”The upgrade cannot cost more than 3 points or be discarded upon use.”