Does a VETO card have to be played immediately after an agenda is revealed or can you wait to use it just before the voting is done. Reason i ask is an agenda popped up and one of the players played an Imperial Rider card and then after he did that another player played VETO card to remove the agenda to prevent the person using the Imperial Rider, also if the VETO card is used does the Imperial Rider now become null and void and discarded or since the Agenda to be voted on was VETO'd does it (the rider card) go back into the players hand? Also if voting has started can a person retroactively use the VETO card?

Once the speaker reveals the agenda, you go initiative order around the table and everyone get's an opportunity to either veto the agenda or add a rider it. If the first 3 people all add riders to the agenda, and the last person plays a veto, all the riders are discarded and a new agenda is picked. Once voting has started, you can't then veto an agenda as that is not the timing of the actions in the agenda phase.

If you look at 8.2 in the rule books they make a point to say that 'reveal agenda' is the first step. Riders and veto card/abilities all have the qualifying condition of 'When an agenda is revealed', so everyone has to have a chance to use cards/abilities before moving on to the next step which is voting. When more than one person want's to play a card at the same time, you determine who's happens first based on their initiative, which is under 43 in the rule book.

After everyone has had a chance to add a rider or veto, you start voting with the person to the left of the speaker and go clockwise around the table, which is step 2 under 8.2 in the rule book.

IndyBart: That's a good summary! I've stolen it and flesh it out a bit for our group's TI4 wiki page . Thanks!

1 hour ago, pklevine said:

IndyBart: That's a good summary! I've stolen it and flesh it out a bit for our group's TI4 wiki page . Thanks!

I checked your wiki page and I like a lot of your house rules. Especially with Embers getting to place the super nova and the Winnu changes/abilities. I also think bugs starting with red and yellow would be a bit much, but starting with either could make sense. Personally I think yellow makes more sense because of the hive mind, and they are probably heading to dreadnaughts anyways.

Actually, I Just checked some things, and Riders say "After an agenda is revealed..." while Dane has said the Veto card is errata'd as "When an agenda is revealed..."

In other words, the intent is that you check for Vetoes first, and then check for Riders. So I'll update that on the wiki.

(And I haven't had a chance to playtest N'orr yet with the two techs. I want at least three games with them before deciding.)

12 hours ago, pklevine said:

Actually, I Just checked some things, and Riders say "After an agenda is revealed..." while Dane has said the Veto card is errata'd as "When an agenda is revealed..."

In other words, the intent is that you check for Vetoes first, and then check for Riders. So I'll update that on the wiki.

(And I haven't had a chance to playtest N'orr yet with the two techs. I want at least three games with them before deciding.)

That's how we interpreted it, after a bit of a discussion. But I would welcome a clarification on the intent, i.e. is vetoes ment to go before riders?

Yeah, definitely. You play a veto WHEN an agenda is revealed, and then you play riders AFTER an agenda is revealed. Definitely pretty straightforward when phrased that way, and I believe the clarification/errata was specifically to cover the Veto/Rider interaction.

I've updated my wiki page.