I don't use Vassal but i assume that someone already tried it out:
Raider + Instigator + Tua + Early Warning System
Put the chaff token in the front and move the ship right up to the enemy squadron ball. Most squadrons only have 1 die AS, so they get locked down and can't really do a thing about it (at least for one turn).
Will the Raider now be the Anti-Squadron-Ship it was supposed to be?
This is a good idea, I'm not entirely certain if it would work but at least it's functional.
56 minutes ago, KaLeu said:I don't use Vassal but i assume that someone already tried it out:
Raider + Instigator + Tua + Early Warning System
Put the chaff token in the front and move the ship right up to the enemy squadron ball. Most squadrons only have 1 die AS, so they get locked down and can't really do a thing about it (at least for one turn).
Will the Raider now be the Anti-Squadron-Ship it was supposed to be?
Add Flechettes!
Does that work? Instigator ties them down, and they can't hit anything but the front, dropping 1 die automatically?
If so, HECK YES!!!!!
Yeah, totally add flechettes.
Though, generally I hate the design of flechettes, cuz they're useless if your opponent brings a negligible squad force or none.
Just now, Blail Blerg said:Does that work? Instigator ties them down, and they can't hit anything but the front, dropping 1 die automatically?
If so, HECK YES!!!!!
Yeah, totally add flechettes.
Though, generally I hate the design of flechettes, cuz they're useless if your opponent brings a negligible squad force or none.
Well that whole raider build would almost be useless if your opponent had no squads.
Raider I (44)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Flechette Torpedoes (3)
• Instigator (4)
• Early Warning System (7)
= 64 Points
8 minutes ago, themightyhedgehog said:Add Flechettes!
I'm frustrated that they gave the best potential Raider upgrade to Large Ships: Ordnance Pods would have made perfect sense on a Raider without being overpowered. Yes, it would have created an rare scenario where you could fire up to 12 AS dice at a unique squadron, but the chances of that happening more than once ever are slim to none and it wouldn't even have a particularly good chance to kill the target.
Edited by thecactusman171 hour ago, KaLeu said:I don't use Vassal but i assume that someone already tried it out:
Raider + Instigator + Tua + Early Warning System
Put the chaff token in the front and move the ship right up to the enemy squadron ball. Most squadrons only have 1 die AS, so they get locked down and can't really do a thing about it (at least for one turn).
Will the Raider now be the Anti-Squadron-Ship it was supposed to be?
Early warning system is much more efficient on a large ship because squadrons will have a more difficult time hurdling the EWS protected hull zone.
On the other hand, it is much easier for a squadron to hop over a raider and bypass this defensive system.
1 minute ago, thecactusman17 said:I'm frustrated that they gave the best potential Raider upgrade to Large Ships: Ordnance Pods would have made perfect sense on a Raider without being overpowered. Yes, it would have created an rare scenario where you could fire up to 8 AS dice at a unique squadron, but the chances of that happening more than once ever are slim to none and it wouldn't even have a particularly good chance to kill the target.
Really?
pretty sure even before the inherent OE rerolls 8 dice would kill Jan on average.
since they are all black.
So that is just something to keep in mind... it’s a lot of small dice attacks... overwhelming tokens and basically giving basic synergy to one shot things...
I think that’s why it is large/medium... to give those anti ship shooters a bonus, not to double down...
...
plus, I’ve had good raider drivers basically do this with instigator and debris fields, anyway... no EWS required ?
2 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:Early warning system is much more efficient on a large ship because squadrons will have a more difficult time hurdling the EWS protected hull zone.
On the other hand, it is much easier for a squadron to hop over a raider and bypass this defensive system.
Squads can't move because of the title! They are engaged.
1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:Really?
pretty sure even before the inherent OE rerolls 8 dice would kill Jan on average.
since they are all black.
So that is just something to keep in mind... it’s a lot of small dice attacks... overwhelming tokens and basically giving basic synergy to one shot things...
I think that’s why it is large/medium... to give those anti ship shooters a bonus, not to double down...
...
plus, I’ve had good raider drivers basically do this with instigator and debris fields, anyway... no EWS required ?
Jan needs a counter so frankly, good riddance. That said, most squads with only 4 hull have a scatter as one of their defenses and wouldn't actually take all those dice. The unique ones without scatter tend to have 5+ hull, which would require:
Double-arc plus Kallus for 3 dice each.
Ordnance Pods for an extra set of attacks (2 more dice at each unique)
Impetuous (bonus attack vs one squadron, up to 3 dice)
One CF added die.
If you've double arced your target with a Raider you could get up to 12 dice. That would require expert flying and timing to pull off, and likely most players will never get it off. For the marginally less difficult task of getting 1 arc plus pods plus instigator, this won't happen more than 1-2 times per match at most and only really threatens non-scatter unique squadrons which are the current meta scourge anyway.
I think its an interesting idea with instigator. Its a large percentage of ship points to make it work tho.
47 minutes ago, themightyhedgehog said:Raider I (44)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Flechette Torpedoes (3)
• Instigator (4)
• Early Warning System (7)
= 64 Points
Drop to speed zero too, because if you're wasting 64 pts on this, you gotta go all in (at least until anything gets near you and you can't spend tokens).
55 minutes ago, themightyhedgehog said:Squads can't move because of the title! They are engaged.
Indeed! Great synergy right there. I think my point still holds true though, ignoring the raider title.
The perfect ship to drop right on the nose of GH?
Perhaps.
1 hour ago, themightyhedgehog said:Well that whole raider build would almost be useless if your opponent had no squads.
not wholly useless, obstructed vs ship attacks is still quite nice