Hello all,

Recently, one of my opponents forgot to set a dial for one (of three) of their ships. We were both fairly certain that this is addressed by FFG in one of their FAQ's however.... we could not locate it.

In the end we agreed that the ship without a dial will perform a straight two (forward).

Is there a published FFG ruling on this scenario?

Thanks!

They indeed have addressed it in the FAQ. On page 6, in the top-right, you will find this entry:

Quote

If a player forgets to place a maneuver dial next to a ship, but tells his opponent he is ready to begin the round, once play has proceeded to the first ship (a dial has been revealed, a maneuver has been executed, etc.), he may no longer place a dial. Instead, when that ship activates, the player’s opponent chooses the maneuver that ship will perform. No actions may be taken before this maneuver, but play proceeds normally after the maneuver has been executed.

Locally, we've always run with the maneuver already showing on the dial, whatever it was from last turn. However, it looks like we've been playing it wrong.

@Zilla2112 Try downloading the rulebook and FAQ to phone/tablet. That way you can search for keywords rather than flipping through the rulebook or FAQ trying to find that passage you weren't sure about.

Thank you, everyone. :-)

On 1/24/2018 at 9:17 AM, theBitterFig said:

Locally, we've always run with the maneuver already showing on the dial, whatever it was from last turn. However, it looks like we've been playing it wrong.

That's how I'd believe it should be played.

You may forget to change the dial to something new but because "setting dials" is something that must be done before you can move out of the Planning Phase it should be expected it is done by both parties before moving into activations.

This doesn't negate the FAQ entry Dr4cO points out which while it may be official I'm not sure it's always "right".

45 minutes ago, StevenO said:

That's how I'd believe it should be played.

You may forget to change the dial to something new but because "setting dials" is something that must be done before you can move out of the Planning Phase it should be expected it is done by both parties before moving into activations.

This doesn't negate the FAQ entry Dr4cO points out which while it may be official I'm not sure it's always "right".

If there's a case where there's no clear indication which dial would be associated with which ship, having your opponent set the move seems like the best solution. But in times other than that, like the dial was just left near the ship face-up and never really moved, no question which ships are associated with which dials, I mean, you could make the case that the dial is still set.

25 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

If there's a case where there's no clear indication which dial would be associated with which ship, having your opponent set the move seems like the best solution. But in times other than that, like the dial was just left near the ship face-up and never really moved, no question which ships are associated with which dials, I mean, you could make the case that the dial is still set.

I guess an issue I have with allowing your opponent to set your dial is when the FAQ went and REMOVED that idea when a Stressed ship attempts to perform a Red maneuver. Maybe there are ways to give a ship stress between setting the dial and it revealing its maneuver that weren't there before but when the opponent is no longer allowed to set the dial there and must instead perform a given basic maneuver I'm not sure what that shouldn't apply everywhere when there is an illegal (or no) dial for a ship.

1 hour ago, StevenO said:

I guess an issue I have with allowing your opponent to set your dial is when the FAQ went and REMOVED that idea when a Stressed ship attempts to perform a Red maneuver. Maybe there are ways to give a ship stress between setting the dial and it revealing its maneuver that weren't there before but when the opponent is no longer allowed to set the dial there and must instead perform a given basic maneuver I'm not sure what that shouldn't apply everywhere when there is an illegal (or no) dial for a ship.

In some instances, like the Shaken Pilot critical card, being forced to dial a 2-straight maneuver when you're not allowed to dial straight maneuvers is rather convenient. In a nutshell, since there are so many ways to assign stress before a ship activates these days (flipping a crit with Saboteur, dropping a cargo debris token onto a ship, etc), it's not fair to outright penalize a player for not realizing they were going to be performing a red maneuver while stressed... hence the 2-straight rule (a maneuver that's on every ship dial).

That's different from an ILLEGAL dial, which should not have been set at the time. With Shaken Pilot, you're forbidden from setting a straight maneuver in the planning phase... if you do, you're penalized by having your opponent set the dial instead. The same applies if you set an incorrect dial, with a maneuver that the standard ship can't do (like using a Z-95 dial for an X-Wing and trying a 3-K-Turn).

2 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

In some instances, like the Shaken Pilot critical card, being forced to dial a 2-straight maneuver when you're not allowed to dial straight maneuvers is rather convenient. In a nutshell, since there are so many ways to assign stress before a ship activates these days (flipping a crit with Saboteur, dropping a cargo debris token onto a ship, etc), it's not fair to outright penalize a player for not realizing they were going to be performing a red maneuver while stressed... hence the 2-straight rule (a maneuver that's on every ship dial).

That's different from an ILLEGAL dial, which should not have been set at the time. With Shaken Pilot, you're forbidden from setting a straight maneuver in the planning phase... if you do, you're penalized by having your opponent set the dial instead. The same applies if you set an incorrect dial, with a maneuver that the standard ship can't do (like using a Z-95 dial for an X-Wing and trying a 3-K-Turn).

It's worth noting that if you swapped the dials for your ships and pull moves which are otherwise legal moves (anything but a K-Turn, really), you execute the proper move at the proper difficulty. So the 2-bank is still green for a Z-95, even if you used an X-Wing dial by mistake.

Quote

Assigning Incorrect Ship Dials

If a player assigns the wrong ship dial to his ship (for example, assigning
a B-wing dial to an X-wing), when he reveals the dial he must inform his opponent of the error. If the revealed maneuver is a legal maneuver for that ship (for example, the revealed B-wing dial shows a red [ 4] maneuver, a maneuver whose bearing and speed also appears on the X-wing ship dial), it is executed with the proper difficulty of the maneuver (in this example, white). If the revealed maneuver is not a legal maneuver for that ship (for example, the B-wing dial shows a red [ 1] maneuver, a maneuver that does not appear on the X-wing ship dial), the player’s opponent chooses which legal maneuver from that ship’s actual dial that ship will perform.

//

Personally, I kinda think the penalty for an incorrect Red move is a little too light, but not by much. I'd add a stress to the ship after that White 2-Straight. The main reason I'd make that change is is PTL/AdvS Kylo. If he dials in a red move, but then decides a 2-straight would be better, he could just PTL before moving, and take the 2-straight. He's no more stressed than otherwise with the red move, but he gets to change his maneuver without penalty. If after the forced move you gained a stress, I don't think that'd be too punishing for a ship which was intending to be stressed, but someone cheated a stress onto it, but it'd add enough of a penalty to a ship planning on abusing the mechanic to discourage it, I think.

So what happens if the opposite occurs? During a recent game, I set a dial for "Countdown." During Activation, I forgot to move him. My opponent didn't notice either. Then we got to the end of the round. We decided to perform "Countdown" maneuver as dialed in before the next round began, since it wouldn't have caused a bump. I couldn't find a rule.

15 minutes ago, Kafitrar said:

So what happens if the opposite occurs? During a recent game, I set a dial for "Countdown." During Activation, I forgot to move him. My opponent didn't notice either. Then we got to the end of the round. We decided to perform "Countdown" maneuver as dialed in before the next round began, since it wouldn't have caused a bump. I couldn't find a rule.

Clearly a "missed opportunity" that you have to let go. It seems far too much has happened to have any chance at making it right.

Now so what if accidentally forgetting to move left clear of a bomb going off, had someone plop down in your gunsights, and kept you from being in arc of an enemy ship which would have shot it down? Mistakes happen and if no one bothers to mention them why fix them?

PS. A lot of this is intended to have a good bit of sarcsam with it.

4 hours ago, StevenO said:

PS. A lot of this is intended to have a good bit of sarcsam with it.

Good thing you added that onto your post. I was about to berate you for using a “missed opportunity” as an excuse to execute a free white stop maneuver.

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 10:17 AM, theBitterFig said:

Locally, we've always run with the maneuver already showing on the dial, whatever it was from last turn. However, it looks like we've been playing it wrong.

If you're playing casually with friends, you're never playing wrong so long as you're all in agreement and having fun.

Competitively, your opponent has executive privileges with the choice of that poor ship's maneuver dial (within any applicable restrictions applied to movement: stress & red, Shaken Pilot, etc.).

8 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Good thing you added that onto your post. I was about to berate you for using a “missed opportunity” as an excuse to execute a free white stop maneuver.

Oh not at all. I mean is it ALL my fault that one of my ships didn't get moved when it was supposed to? Must have gotten distracted between revealing the dial and actually performing the maneuver. If that occurs and later my opponent happens to notice that and bring it up there really isn't much that can be done about it now is there?

I too get tired of seeing "missed opportunity" as an excuse to let something "good to you" pass just because your opponent failed to notice and say anything at the time. Movement may be hard to miss but there are a wide range of things both players should notice and mention to actually forget it.

My opponent and I were flying casual so we were cool with the two-straight. Plus, his dial was already set to two-straight from the previous turns activation phase, so we felt that it all just fell into place. Zero resistance from either player.

That being stated; it is quite good to know the exact location of this rule as I was working off my hard copies, table side, and will continue to do so until a tablet is part of my event kit.

In both the original Core Rulebook and the Learn to Play, it tells you to:

" ...places the dial facedown in the play area next to its corresponding ship..."

This is a good habit to get into, because it gives you a visible indication that all dials are down and ready to go, as well as helping keep track of what dial goes with what ship. I have played against people in tournaments who place dials near their cards or the edge of the board, which may be OK, but is a little sketchy because of the situation where someone was caught changing their dials to get an advantage.

On 1/25/2018 at 11:08 PM, StevenO said:

Clearly a "missed opportunity" that you have to let go. It seems far too much has happened to have any chance at making it right.

Now so what if accidentally forgetting to move left clear of a bomb going off, had someone plop down in your gunsights, and kept you from being in arc of an enemy ship which would have shot it down? Mistakes happen and if no one bothers to mention them why fix them?

PS. A lot of this is intended to have a good bit of sarcsam with it.

Fair enough. Forgetting to move meant that "Countdown" took a range 2 shot, not a range 1. He also didn't take an action.

8 hours ago, Kafitrar said:

Fair enough. Forgetting to move meant that "Countdown" took a range 2 shot, not a range 1. He also didn't take an action.

Not getting in trouble in exchange for missing an action and +1 green dice; certainly can be worth it.

The question is if countdown forgets to dial in a maneuver, who sets the ailerons? the player controlling him or countdown because it only prohibits actions...

I'd probably say Ailerons don't trigger - you didn't reveal a dial.

I wanted to chime in one something I have noticed recent. There seems to be a trend, at least locally in my area, where players are not placing dials next to their ships. I have seen more and more cases of things being done out of order and missed opportunities. It got to one point at an event, I had (as the TO) to start enforcing the "place your dial next to your ship" rule. Has anyone noticed this trend, even with out the mistakes/missed opportunists?

I have never placed my dials next to my ships because I find it too easy to forget which dial is which. When they are placed on the pilot cards or in front of the pilot cards, then there is a clear link between each dial and each pilot.

14 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

I have never placed my dials next to my ships because I find it too easy to forget which dial is which. When they are placed on the pilot cards or in front of the pilot cards, then there is a clear link between each dial and each pilot.

That's a good call. I keep getting players just lining them up on the mat and its driving me nuts lol

44 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

That's a good call. I keep getting players just lining them up on the mat and its driving me nuts lol

That is the crazy idea. When they're by the ship you can figure out what goes where and when they're by the card it may be easier but when they are all bunched together and supposedly point to the ship they are assigned to they are just asking for problems.