can someone point me to the online tree?
jerserra's influence
I don't like it, committing force dice to increase willpower is counter productive for using force powers
Edited by EliasWindriderHow so? I see no difference from using enhance to make you more agile.
If the assumption is that Willpower is only useful for Discipline checks to attack with Force powers, then yes, it's counterproductive. But Willpower is useful for much more than that.
Higher Will can get you better Vigilance, Discipline, and Coercion checks, which includes a social "attack" and two social "defenses." Vigilance is also an initiative skill and, as Force dice are the weakest when included in dice pools, substituting Force dice to your initiative from Foresee with extra ability dice from Jerserra's Influence is statistically a better trade.
If you're a Niman user, extra Will boosts your attacks, many groups play with a houserule that boosts to Brawn temporarily increase your Wound Threshold, so boosting Willpower should do the same for your Strain, and there are talents (such as Deathblow and Mind Over Matter) that directly key off your Willpower without need of the Force.
So, is it situational? Yes. Can it be extremely useful if you're the kind of character built to take advantage of it? Definitely yes.
Edited by Absol1976 hours ago, Absol197 said:If the assumption is that Willpower is only useful for Discipline checks to attack with Force powers, then yes, it's counterproductive. But Willpower is useful for much more than that.
Higher Will can get you better Vigilance, Discipline, and Coercion checks, which includes a social "attack" and two social "defenses." Vigilance is also an initiative skill and, as Force dice are the weakest when included in dice pools, substituting Force dice to your initiative from Foresee with extra ability dice from Jerserra's Influence is statistically a better trade.
If you're a Niman user, extra Will boosts your attacks, many groups play with a houserule that boosts to Brawn temporarily increase your Wound Threshold, so boosting Willpower should do the same for your Strain, and there are talents (such as Deathblow and Mind Over Matter) that directly key off your Willpower without need of the Force.
So, is it situational? Yes. Can it be extremely useful if you're the kind of character built to take advantage of it? Definitely yes.
So let's compare a 2 spec character with 3 force dice with a starting 4 in a primary stat agility or willpower that uses enhance or jerserra's influence vs. having a as high as possible, assume that they also each have two 3's, two 2's, and a 1 for their other stats. The first spec is ataru striker/Niman disciple. The agility build is going to need a second spec with 2 force rating and no dedication. The will power build is going to have any spec with one force rating and a dedication (my preference is sentry or maybe ascetic or force sensitive emergent but that's not required for this analysis).
The question is who benefits more if they don't put all their dedications into their primary stat and relies on enhance/jerserra's influence vs. putting all their dedications into the primary stat and skipping the attribute boosting force powers.
The answer is that the ataru striker is a lot more flexible if they stick with the 4 agility and enhance, while the Niman disciple is definitely better off with the natural 6 willpower and skipping jerserra's influence. If you want to see why from a light saber only point of view take a look at their light saber signature talents hawk bat swoop vs. Draw closer and saber swarm vs. Force assault/move.
With a single force pip hawk back swoop or draw closer will let you engage with an opponent in short range, so no difference there. But then let's compare saber swarm on one force die to force assault with move on one force die, saber swarm (on one force die) gets you linked 1 which isn't shabby considering it activates with advantage and you've temporarily got a 6 in agility. Force assault, you had to have missed your lightsaber attack (let's presume you did this) and then you try to use move on him via force assault, you've got the 6 willpower for the discipline check but you're not going to power many upgrades on one force die. OK now let's assume that you have the 4 in the primary stat, didn't use enhance/jerserra's influence and make the light saber attack with saberswarm/force assault (backing up the missed lightsaber attack, because you wanted to miss) and you've possibly gate a few blue dice contributed to your lighsaber/discipline check from your party and/or lightsaber attachments/mods. The ataru striker can potentially get linked 3 and just erase their opponent (made easier with hawk bat swoop), and the Niman-disciple is going to have a harder time of making the discipline check but should have enough force pips to power it. Now let's see what happens if the ataru striker has agility 5 (it's where they put their 1 dedication) and the Niman disciple has willpower 6 (where they put their 2 dedications) and neither is using enhance/jerserra's influence. The ataru striker has one more die to generate advantage or success with (not all that big a deal) and is more likely to activate an extra linked or have an extra point of damage multiplied by how many times they activated linked. The Niman disciple (who probably only has the 2 free ranks in lightsaber because he wants to miss with the lightsaber) is much more likely to make the discipline check AND have the force pips to power a lot of move upgrades.
And that's in a lightsaber duel.
Now you're likely going to say yeah but the Niman disciple gets the 6 willpower at the cost of not bumping up other stats, yeah well if you need to shoot or pilot you can use enhance. But what's good for the goose is good for the gander right? Presume that the ataru striker had 5 agility and 3 willpower and was using jerserra's influence to make up the difference, it would help with Vigilance and resisting fear checks but it won't help with force powers.
So all around, boosting agility with enhance is just better than boosting willpower with jerserra's influence.
Edited by EliasWindriderI see it more useful for making a character with low willpower better. Example, my current character only has willpower 2 and a PC I butt heads with a lot is a Zabrak with YGG for coercion with automatic advantage from his racial. Without any kind of buff he can potentially just shout me down (GM makes us roll imitative to see who gets to use their social skill first) where as if I could use this skill I might be able to buff myself up to GGGG which has a reasonable chance of besting the roll. In the same vein my character sucks at fear checks with that 2 willpower. So while there is the option to use jerserra's to add force to the roll, having 4 green to roll is generally better.
On 1/26/2018 at 2:36 PM, EliasWindrider said:I don't like it, committing force dice to increase willpower is counter productive for using force powers
I'm not sure what the complaint is about, that ability is just a single branch on the tree and not even a required one. It's useful for Discipline checks but specifically it's to enhance the Mastery Discipline vs Discipline attack. On the whole it's a pretty powerful Power when used against lower Discipline PCs, used properly and flipping a DP to upgrade (or downgrade) it can be pretty effective, especially outside of combat when spreading fear can open up some nasty narrative opportunities. Imagine being able to cow a group to run away rather than fight or to fight rather than run. Properly used this can be a real problem for Lightside Force users trying to solve problems without violence.
Also keep in mind this, like Warde's Foresight, is not a Power that is normally available to PC's unless they have experienced this adventure. That's not to say a GM can't make it available but unlike the other basic powers it's pretty specific in it's lore. In any case it's not a Power that is something a Lightside FU is going to find very useful as spreading fear isn't a Lightside thing narratively.
Here's a question: Would you allow these Adventure Module powers (this and Warde's Foresight) to be purchased in a campaign not using those modules? Are they intrinsically linked to the Adventure itself, such that they should not be available if the characters haven't "earned" them? Or are they perfectly serviceable powers divorced from the adventure, and anyone should be able to use them?
1 minute ago, ErikModi said:Here's a question: Would you allow these Adventure Module powers (this and Warde's Foresight) to be purchased in a campaign not using those modules? Are they intrinsically linked to the Adventure itself, such that they should not be available if the characters haven't "earned" them? Or are they perfectly serviceable powers divorced from the adventure, and anyone should be able to use them?
Well, the powers were invented by Warde and Jerserra's Master. So that means it's possible to invent them. So if they can do it, I'd allow a character to do so as well, provided they have a reason to have that ability. A character who's spent time cultivating fear-based abilities could probably develop Jerserra's Influence, and a character that is known for being very good at reading people and predicting the future might conceivably stumble upon Warde's Foresight on their own.
I think they're fine, although they are probably rare, and there would need to be some form of justification for learning them. But that justification doesn't necessarily need to be "participated in the adventure the power was introduced in," it just needs to be thematically appropriate.
My character already has the Fear the Shadows skill from the Sentry spec, so focusing that to become a Jereserras Influence like ability wouldn't be that farfetched. You could say the same for other similar skills like the Agressors Terrify. Im sure theres examples for Wardes.
1 hour ago, ErikModi said:Here's a question: Would you allow these Adventure Module powers (this and Warde's Foresight) to be purchased in a campaign not using those modules? Are they intrinsically linked to the Adventure itself, such that they should not be available if the characters haven't "earned" them? Or are they perfectly serviceable powers divorced from the adventure, and anyone should be able to use them?
Absol197 pretty much summed it up. Then again my players don't have any of these adventures so they don't really know about them anyway
6 minutes ago, FuriousGreg said:Absol197 pretty much summed it up.
I mean, summing is pretty much all I'm good for around here, though, isn't it? I may as well be walking around with a giant Sigma symbol on my forehead that people prod when they need things
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9 minutes ago, Absol197 said:I mean, summing is pretty much all I'm good for around here, though, isn't it? I may as well be walking around with a giant Sigma symbol on my forehead that people prod when they need things
*pokes* I need a mystic book.
22 minutes ago, SithArissa said:*pokes* I need a mystic book.
Me first
!
EDIT: Hey, I think I deserve SOMEthing for all my calculating that I do around here! Being the first to get the Mystic book isn't too much to ask, is it? You'd get yours right after...
Edited by Absol19723 hours ago, Absol197 said:Me first
EDIT: Hey, I think I deserve SOMEthing for all my calculating that I do around here! Being the first to get the Mystic book isn't too much to ask, is it? You'd get yours right after...
Only if it's your fate.
On January 30, 2018 at 2:31 AM, Absol197 said:Me first
EDIT: Hey, I think I deserve SOMEthing for all my calculating that I do around here! Being the first to get the Mystic book isn't too much to ask, is it? You'd get yours right after...
You can have a warrior book.
31 minutes ago, SithArissa said:You can have a warrior book.
But I don't WANT a Warrior book... I'm not a Warrior, I'm a Mystic!
Its good to branch out. Diversification.