On 1/23/2018 at 3:33 PM, Snipafist said:

In response to #2, you wouldn't bring him specifically in case of Intel. You'd bring him for whatever other normal purpose and then suddenly your TIE Fighters/Defenders/whatever that were escorting your Rhymerball would also get to use Rhymer. It's rather silly.

you could rulw ot so that Rhymer obly affects Squads that have 'Heavy' on their base.

Well most ships only have black range die and up until the previous wave none could go out to red die (Which I think was a mistake as the ISD should have had a red die). So Rhymer could pretty much attack anything with impunity being able to stay out of range of most ships and even attack from outside of range from all ships.

Squadrons have never been one of Armada's most refined systems.

3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Well most ships only have black range die and up until the previous wave none could go out to red die (Which I think was a mistake as the ISD should have had a red die). So Rhymer could pretty much attack anything with impunity being able to stay out of range of most ships and even attack from outside of range from all ships.

Squadrons have never been one of Armada's most refined systems.

Wave 0 sez 'wut?'

Sorry, having spent time trying to put together lists that can make use of flechette torpedoes, I have to say this statement is the exact opposite of reality. It's much easier to find a ship with blue flak range than black!

9 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Wave 0 sez 'wut?'

Sorry, having spent time trying to put together lists that can make use of flechette torpedoes, I have to say this statement is the exact opposite of reality. It's much easier to find a ship with blue flak range than black!

Talk about missing the point.

The Pre-nerf Rhymer ball can still stay out of range and squadron into blue. What I am saying is that we should have had Red Anti-squadron values in Wave 2 not wait until 6 (also quasar should have been 6 points cheaper but that is another thread).

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Talk about missing the point.

The Pre-nerf Rhymer ball can still stay out of range and squadron into blue. What I am saying is that we should have had Red Anti-squadron values in Wave 2 not wait until 6 (also quasar should have been 6 points cheaper but that is another thread).

Erm... hows he missing the point?

You said ships only have black dice... he's refuted that statement

9 hours ago, slasher956 said:

Erm... hows he missing the point?

You said ships only have black dice... he's refuted that statement

Most ships, get it right.

He said at first AS values were just about all blue. Yeah at Wave 1 but as more waves came around there was more black anti squadron batteries and no red. So essentially the average range was reduced not increased.

45 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Most ships, get it right.

Still nowhere near most though. There are currently 21 ship variants with blue only flak, 9 with black only and 7 with blue-black, plus the one red.

Yavaris should be nerfed so FCT counts as a movement, thus preventing Yavaris from working.

Yavaris: Each squadron you activate can attack twice if it did not move this round.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Yavaris should be nerfed so FCT counts as a movement, thus preventing Yavaris from working.

Yavaris: Each squadron you activate can attack twice if it did not move this round.

Would that be the death knell to the Nebulon outside of SatoVation though?

And, I guess to add, with genuine curiosity - does that matter?

44 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Would that be the death knell to the Nebulon outside of SatoVation though?

And, I guess to add, with genuine curiosity - does that matter?

Yes.

If for the only reason that i own 3 Neb-Bs.

30 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Would that be the death knell to the Nebulon outside of SatoVation though?

And, I guess to add, with genuine curiosity - does that matter?

I don't think it would. FCT for me is often used to push squadrons into a slightly better position or move b wings turn 1 (move faster, you oafs!). It would make Yavaris harder to use, which I wouldn't mind (as a frequent flyer). I've also heard calls for a change/nerf that if you activate a squad through Relay, you don't get bonuses (flight Controllers, Yav double, Adar suchnsuch). Which I'd also be amenable to.

The problem with the Neb titles is they're very wave 1. Yav is kinda busted, Salv depends on your roll (great/pointless!), and Redemption is..... present (on a different topic, I think a Garm fleet with MCEF and Redemption/StM Pelta that just tanks EVERYTHING could work maybe???). It's similar to VSD titles, except they're on a bigger chassis (and those are all bad).

I know it's been mentioned several times that the next campaign box we'd like new ship titles (VSDs and Nebs would benefit the most IMO, Arqs and CR90s second), and the only way FFG could "fix" a potential "dead" nebulon issue would be something akin to DCaps for Nebs that isn't also good on things like CR90s. Intensify firepower could be that? That's the best "fix" in my mind.

The nerf was warranted, but should have come with a reduction in points.

In other news, FFG needs to be willing to raise/reduce points as part of a nerf/buff.

This fct combo feels like a broken exploit. We're given early warning systems to block out an arc, but it can't stop unlocked yavaris fighters getting a free slide into an adjacent arc not protected by ews to 6-tap there?

It feels just as liberating as using Demolisher after engine techs for a speed 4 black fist attack...a combo that got nerfed.

23 hours ago, mythics said:

I feel as if I have been summoned from the abyss.

The core issue why rhymer at medium is the damage he could put out on lists without them being able to respond in any way. Coupled with various quasar based movements, if rhymer was reverted in any way to medium, then quite a few lists would be gone overnight. Granted rhymer is what kept pickle token lists from happening, but adding him back into the mix will just shift the meta. There will always be something stronger, and if the nail sticking out keeps getting hammered the fun of the game will slowly vanish as each ship and squadron is homogenized.

Close range is good and he's no longer an autoinclude. w7 just came out and things will need to shake out to see what is the new hotness. Close range raid tokens pair well with rhymer and might be a key in stopping problem lists in their tracks.

Also: it's not the triple tap b-wings that are the issue, it's the norra +1 damage crit effect thats the problem.

I think EWS would significantly mitigate Rhymer under Blails proposal.

2 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Would that be the death knell to the Nebulon outside of SatoVation though?

And, I guess to add, with genuine curiosity - does that matter?

I don't think SatoVation is very good. It's a gimmick, but it is fun because it's swingy.

I was actually thinking about running my 3 Nebs, but then I decided it would be more fun if I tried to win. So to answer your question, I don't think it matters if Nebs are phased out. They are a victim of power creep, and I'm really sick n tired of seeing only Nebs as Yavaris.

37 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I don't think SatoVation is very good. It's a gimmick, but it is fun because it's swingy.

I was actually thinking about running my 3 Nebs, but then I decided it would be more fun if I tried to win. So to answer your question, I don't think it matters if Nebs are phased out. They are a victim of power creep, and I'm really sick n tired of seeing only Nebs as Yavaris.

I do think I'd rather have at least an attempt made at bringing the baseline Nebulon back... I think if that went ahead, I'd stomach a hard-nerf of Yavaris more.

17 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I do think I'd rather have at least an attempt made at bringing the baseline Nebulon back... I think if that went ahead, I'd stomach a hard-nerf of Yavaris more.

Give it a Redirect and +1 shields on the side and I'd love to run them again. But they are also limited by their upgrade slots. Officer, Support Crew, Turbo. Not a lot of builds for a Neb, even with my suggested buff.

I don't often support speculation and upgrade mongering, but I was particularly inspired... Since I think the point is trying to find what the Neb B is okay at, and going with it... And it was the first ship out with a Double Brace... So...

Support Team (Preliminary Verbiage)

"Redundant Damage Control Droids"
Before your opponent calculates the amount of damage dealt to you from an attack, you may discard a brace token to reduce that damage to 1."



Limited usage on the big ships with only the single Brace... I mean, its a one-shot for an Interdictor, basically... But potentially Broken on a Liberty... So perhaps Small or Medium Ship Only...

Although Walex's interaction with it is something that would need to be considered...

Hmmm.

Eh, its speculation.

I was going to make an argument that they're not as good as Task Force Antilles Scout HH with Spinals and Gunnery Team, but for an identical points cost I can get one TFA GT Spinal HH (3 red dice out the front, GT) or I can get one Spinal Neb Escort (4 red dice front and 1 red side).

Apparently yesterday in Monster Trucks, Intensify Firepower! is INSANE. And with 4 red base, Leia, and Intensify Firepower.... that's a **** of a gunline. 16 red dice, 2 braces, an evade? Eat it Cymoon.

5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I don't often support speculation and upgrade mongering, but I was particularly inspired... Since I think the point is trying to find what the Neb B is okay at, and going with it... And it was the first ship out with a Double Brace... So...

Ummm...if the problem with a Nebulon buff is that it could potentially make Yavaris too powerful...why not do it in a way that makes it impossible to combo?

Something like the 'fleet' titles?

'Medical Support Fleet. Command 1 and 2 only. While defending against an attack, you may choose and exhaust another copy of this card on a friendly ship at range 1-2 to be able to spend its non-'scatter' defense tokens as if they were your own.'

6 hours ago, xanderf said:

Ummm...if the problem with a Nebulon buff is that it could potentially make Yavaris too powerful...why not do it in a way that makes it impossible to combo?

Something like the 'fleet' titles?

'Medical Support Fleet. Command 1 and 2 only. While defending against an attack, you may choose and exhaust another copy of this card on a friendly ship at range 1-2 to be able to spend its non-'scatter' defense tokens as if they were your own.'

Yeah, I was expecting s hard nerf of Yav to follow - that was the point ?

16 hours ago, DrakonLord said:

Yes.

If for the only reason that i own 3 Neb-Bs.

My 9 Nebulon Bs laugh at your sad attempt to build a fleet ?.

Sad part is I don’t even really run Rebels, and when I was running them, it was Home One and Assault Frigates.

14 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

Give it a Redirect and +1 shields on the side and I'd love to run them again. But they are also limited by their upgrade slots. Officer, Support Crew, Turbo. Not a lot of builds for a Neb, even with my suggested buff.

Word that up as a generic title (Combat Refit?).Then it cannot overlap with Yavaris while making a more combat worthy Nebulon

Rhymer was too powerful, now he is good but not must pick for bomber lists. I would have nerfed hon the same way. Maybe with a point decrease but ffg don't do that

2 hours ago, Church14 said:

Word that up as a generic title (Combat Refit?).Then it cannot overlap with Yavaris while making a more combat worthy Nebulon

Yea they should pair the AF and Neb titles to encourage something other than Yavaris GH. More along the lines of combat or ship defense.