BBBBZ (100)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22) - B-Wing
Collision Detector (0)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22) - B-Wing
Collision Detector (0)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22) - B-Wing
Collision Detector (0)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22) - B-Wing
Collision Detector (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) - Z-95 Headhunter

vs

MMMMZ (100)

Cartel Brute (22) - M12-L Kimogila Fighter
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Cartel Brute (22) - M12-L Kimogila Fighter
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Cartel Brute (22) - M12-L Kimogila Fighter
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Cartel Brute (22) - M12-L Kimogila Fighter
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Binayre Pirate (12) - Z-95 Headhunter

Well, that’s definitely 2 lists.

Which do think is stronger?

That looks like a slug fest that's going to be won by better flying, rock placement & where you deploy.

I'll say the Long Range Scanners will provide a stronger opening volley, and almost surely PS kill a B-Wing. The Binayre Pirate might get PS killed itself, but that'd almost be a victory, having shots wasted on a Z-95 first. Honestly, I think the B-Wings are just greatly outmatched here.

Where things get interesting is when looking at XXXXZ. 4 Rookie Pilots with Flight Assist Astromech and Integrated Astromech will have a lot of mobility up on the Kimogilas, which might be enough to overcome the PS and dice mods advantage that the Kimos have.

One thing I would find very annoying about the Scum list vs BBBBZ is that the Scum Z-95 is PS1 where the rest of the squad is PS3. He moves first but he naturally wants to be a tiny 12 point fortress hanging out in the back. Unlike the Rebel version where they are all PS2 and you can move your B's first and trail the Z-95 without bumping as easily.

I'd give it to the MMMMZ over the BBBBZ due to the Bull's eye firing arc.

And point for point wise...I think I'd rather go with 4 x Advanced Sensor B's instead of BBBBZ and lock in my action before forcing a bump. The B's straight up lose on PS advantage though. They can have one PS killed before they get to shoot.

8 minutes ago, viedit said:

12 point fortress

The Scum team is just stronger I think, but the Rebel player might potentially even the odds by bringing debris and going safely over it (thanks to collision detector) on a key turn for a surprise attack. With the B-Wing's dial it would be a big risk though.

4 Starvipers and Sunny is better than both.

Empire now has their version of 4 Gunboats and an Academy. Which I haven’t tested, but seems like it could be good.

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Yeah I know. But that's one of the win conditions of the list. Keeping points on the table for a timed match. The Z was sort of 12 point locker that you could bail out faster than the B's. Use it's higher agility and keep it at range 3.

6 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

4 Starvipers and Sunny is better than both.

Empire now has their version of 4 Gunboats and an Academy. Which I haven’t tested, but seems like it could be good.

I don't see how the Vipers and Sunny are better. You're trading green dice for hull, but you're super vulnerable to being killed on pilot skill.

Now, run 4 Kimos with Sunny instead of a Z, and baby we've got a stew going.

Kimos also have an edge over the B-Wings and StarVipers, in that they have the PS advantage to line up their Bullseye arcs.

Just now, PhantomFO said:

I don't see how the Vipers and Sunny are better. You're trading green dice for hull, but you're super vulnerable to being killed on pilot skill.

Now, run 4 Kimos with Sunny instead of a Z, and baby we've got a stew going.

The curved barrel roll makes each of them extremely difficult to predict. They can form kill boxes you don’t see coming or get blocks you didn’t even consider. Birmingham Barons talk about how the curve barrel roll is like 1.5 actions in a few episodes back.

29 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

That looks like a slug fest that's going to be won by better flying, rock placement & where you deploy.

Pffft. Who wants to play THAT game?

2 minutes ago, viedit said:

Yeah I know. But that's one of the win conditions of the list. Keeping points on the table for a timed match. The Z was sort of 12 point locker that you could bail out faster than the B's. Use it's higher agility and keep it at range 3.

That match doesn't go to time unless someone is slowplaying. Both lists are filled with 3 red 1 green sluggers that aren't going to miss each other. The Z-95 which isn't really fast, maneuverable, or dodgy enough to run away effectively, but more importantly it's the not even really the Z that needs to run. If it's down to a B vs. a Kimo + Z it's not the Z that needs to worry about getting killed, it's the Kimo since the B wins if he kills that.

You're better off using the Z as a sacrificial blocker.

6 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

The curved barrel roll makes each of them extremely difficult to predict. They can form kill boxes you don’t see coming or get blocks you didn’t even consider. Birmingham Barons talk about how the curve barrel roll is like 1.5 actions in a few episodes back.

Makes sense. The curve is sort of like half a boost...but you can go backwards with it too.

4 of them with title and Autothrusters and 2 x flechette or seismics would be fun to run.

5 minutes ago, Makaze said:

That match doesn't go to time unless someone is slowplaying. Both lists are filled with 3 red 1 green sluggers that aren't going to miss each other. The Z-95 which isn't really fast, maneuverable, or dodgy enough to run away effectively, but more importantly it's the not even really the Z that needs to run. If it's down to a B vs. a Kimo + Z it's not the Z that needs to worry about getting killed, it's the Kimo since the B wins if he kills that.

You're better off using the Z as a sacrificial blocker.

Fair enough. Plus with a PS1 you could force a bump on the Scum side. Regardless, the scum version is better. LRS for initial engagement benefit. Ability to PS kill sooner. The bullseye arc negates focus for defense. Kimo is a straight up better ship for the points.

MMMMZ looks the strongest. Higher PS, long range TL for action economy. Special bullseye fireing arc. Arguably better dial on the Kimogila!

The Brutes win:

1) PS3 vs PS2.

2) Bull's Eye firing arc.

3) Long-Range Scanners.

I'd give advantage to the Scum list, with hope still for Rebels.

Assuming all Range 2 shots, at least 1 Kimo without bullseye arc on the target (so it can focus spend)...

Scum shooting a BWing:

2.75 - 0.75 = 2.0 damage x 1

2.75 - 0.375 = 2.375 damage x 3

9.125 average damage Range 2 is enough to reliably say youll be PS killing a BWing

Return fire is:

2.25 - 0.375 = 1.875 damage x 3

1.5 - 0.375 = 1.125 damage x 1

6.75 average damage is not enough to reliably say the Rebels will even the score against a Kimogola. The score could surely be evened out with some solid action denial though from the Rebels. Naked red dice are naked, after all.

LRS DOES have a downside when in close range skirmishes in situations when you A) TL but roll natural max hits, banking the TL for later or B) TL and find yourself without shots so youd TL something for later. So you end up with a few lost actions per game, which could be enough for a Rebel comeback if they get to bank some close range TLs instead.

Heck, the Rebels may want to kill the Z95 to prevent it from blocking. Range 2, that is a semi reliable kill at 4.75 average damage.

Of course, situations are never as ideal as all that. Range 3 exchanges only could end up with no kills. Range 1 could end up with 2 dead BWings (with some luck of course).

2 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

4 Starvipers and Sunny is better than both.

Empire now has their version of 4 Gunboats and an Academy. Which I haven’t tested, but seems like it could be good.

I'm not sold on the 'vipers. The bendy barrel roll is cool and fun and useful, but on generics you run the risk of swooshing about with no dice mods and unreliable attack and defence.

I do agree that the best 12-point filler for scum is Sunny Bounder with the Light title. Particularly in the combo with the Kimogilas where the Scyk's better dial (compared to the Z) helps offset the pilot skill difference from the Kimogilas. So I'd prefer to amend the OP's list to replace the Z with Sunny in the M3-A. I don't know if MMMM + other M makes for a catchy list name though!

2 hours ago, viedit said:

Yeah I know. But that's one of the win conditions of the list. Keeping points on the table for a timed match. The Z was sort of 12 point locker that you could bail out faster than the B's. Use it's higher agility and keep it at range 3.

That's what the gif meant, he was about to argue with you but then had to stop and think about it and realized that he couldn't actually argue with that. I thought it was a very clever gif.

3 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

4 Starvipers and Sunny is better than both.

Empire now has their version of 4 Gunboats and an Academy. Which I haven’t tested, but seems like it could be good.

Definitely need to try this:

NNNNA

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Plasma w/ focus and chips is 3.64 expected hits, compared to LRS Harpoons 3.75, however, dont forget the +1 shield damage plasma effect on anything with more than 3 shields *cough* Bwings *cough*, and no range bonus vs the other lists either. Will miss Harpoon splash damage, but tracers are more reliable with blackone and countermeasures, etc. out there.

The Kimo is better at just about everything than the B-wing. You shoot first so the lucky crit hitting all that hull isn't such a big deal. The speed three moves and the longer K-turn are massive. I might have to try Sunny's Brutes on vassal sometime.

Four Starvipers and Sunny is better in exactly one respect: It is so much more fun!