I want to preface this by saying that I love the game of Armada. The ships, how it plays, the representation of characters are all amazing.

But when I sit down and think about the game long enough, cracks begin to show in it, and I’ll tell you why: other than seeing the iconic ships on both sides, it doesn’t feel like Star Wars.

This is highlighted when you play other Star Wars games like Rebellion and Imperial Assault (campaign play), where the Rebels truly feel outnumbered against the might of the empire and the mission goals along with the overall picture are what’s most important.

I had the spotlight directed at this from the first time I played Armada with the starter set. I played it with a friend, he was the Empire’s lone VSD while I was the rebel corvette and frigate in the “learn to play scenario,” which is played without objectives.

My friend took one look at the situation and said “this is stupid, why would the rebels stand and fight here?” And he’s right, the rebel ships are far more valuable in the grand scheme of things than that VSD, which the empire probably has countless of sitting around in mothballs.

The game we played made this feel even worse. He pulled his VSD forward at a speed of one, then stopped it. In six rounds the two rebel ships barely made a scratch even without use of his defensive tokens, and I “won” based on squadron kills.

We had a lively debate afterwards and discussed objectives and how they were a must with this game to get a Star Wars “feel.” After that, we’ve played plenty of full games with objectives and expansions.

But the seeds of doubt had been planted. Now ,for myself and my friend ,it seems with each new release the two factions are starting to play more similarly, and by that I mean they’re both highly capable and evenly matched.

To truly get the Star Wars feel that there’s a rebellion going on, that concept seems off. But how can you have a game that seems “fair” and still deliver the feel of the theme?

I’ve discussed this at length with a few local players here. Now don’t get me wrong, we all love Armada, we’re just spitballing on how to get it to feel more like Star Wars. The key seems to be in faction specific objectives.

This is essentially exactly what it sounds like. There should be two goals on each card, one Imperial and one for the Rebels, or just strict objecitve cards that go with each faction. It almost seems silly for them to constantly be going for the same goals in every fleet battle (though some objective cards would have that, because “realistically” it would happen, just not every time).

So what are everyone’s thoughts here with this? I think the CC campaign touched on this in a way, but is this something you’d like to see implemented in the regular game to make it feel more like Star Wars?

If I'm thinking from a fluff perspective i just go with "this takes place after Jedi".

But I don't play most games from fluff perspectives because it's a game, not a story. it needs balance.

It's a big Galaxy. Rebels are outnumbered but tend to concentrate in order to attack things or defend vital systems. Even a vast military dictatorship cannot be strong everywhere and must police areas as well as deal with rebel fleets. Rebels can leave huge percentages of the Galaxy uncontested and yet the Empire must still garrison those areas as they don't know what will be targeted or just rebel in one of those inexplicable yearnings for justice and freedom.

1 hour ago, dominosfleet said:

If I'm thinking from a fluff perspective i just go with "this takes place after Jedi".

But I don't play most games from fluff perspectives because it's a game, not a story. it needs balance.

I’m not talking fluff here for story, just more in line with the theme. The rebels SHOULD have different objectives than the Empire during these engagements. It makes sense that they would not have the same goals all of the time.

Also, I didn’t really mean swaying the game balance one way or the other. I’d like for these faction based scenarios to be playtested and balanced, because like you said: it’s still a game.

And after Jedi? Is Darth Vader’s catchphrase “it’s but a flesh wound”?

Every game has a point where the metagame meets story. Star Wars Armada has a loose theme, but is essentially a platform for a strategy game. If it weren't set in the Star Wars universe, it probably wouldn't have the following that it does, but theoretically speaking, one could come up with some kind of planes/water ships variant that could work just as well. The more one emphasizes the strategic aspects of the game, the more it falls out of sync with the story/theme. But I get the impression that we're all Star Wars fans that enjoy playing a Star Wars themed game without having to force it to fit every battle that was ever fought in the universe.

43 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

I’m not talking fluff here for story, just more in line with the theme. The rebels SHOULD have different objectives than the Empire during these engagements. It makes sense that they would not have the same goals all of the time.

Also, I didn’t really mean swaying the game balance one way or the other. I’d like for these faction based scenarios to be playtested and balanced, because like you said: it’s still a game.

And after Jedi? Is Darth Vader’s catchphrase “it’s but a flesh wound”?

I'll keep that in mind for ahsoka tano .

2 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

I want to preface this by saying that I love the game of Armada. The ships, how it plays, the representation of characters are all amazing.

But when I sit down and think about the game long enough, cracks begin to show in it, and I’ll tell you why: other than seeing the iconic ships on both sides, it doesn’t feel like Star Wars.

This is highlighted when you play other Star Wars games like Rebellion and Imperial Assault (campaign play), where the Rebels truly feel outnumbered against the might of the empire and the mission goals along with the overall picture are what’s most important.

I had the spotlight directed at this from the first time I played Armada with the starter set. I played it with a friend, he was the Empire’s lone VSD while I was the rebel corvette and frigate in the “learn to play scenario,” which is played without objectives.

My friend took one look at the situation and said “this is stupid, why would the rebels stand and fight here?” And he’s right, the rebel ships are far more valuable in the grand scheme of things than that VSD, which the empire probably has countless of sitting around in mothballs.

The game we played made this feel even worse. He pulled his VSD forward at a speed of one, then stopped it. In six rounds the two rebel ships barely made a scratch even without use of his defensive tokens, and I “won” based on squadron kills.

We had a lively debate afterwards and discussed objectives and how they were a must with this game to get a Star Wars “feel.” After that, we’ve played plenty of full games with objectives and expansions.

But the seeds of doubt had been planted. Now ,for myself and my friend ,it seems with each new release the two factions are starting to play more similarly, and by that I mean they’re both highly capable and evenly matched.

To truly get the Star Wars feel that there’s a rebellion going on, that concept seems off. But how can you have a game that seems “fair” and still deliver the feel of the theme?

I’ve discussed this at length with a few local players here. Now don’t get me wrong, we all love Armada, we’re just spitballing on how to get it to feel more like Star Wars. The key seems to be in faction specific objectives.

This is essentially exactly what it sounds like. There should be two goals on each card, one Imperial and one for the Rebels, or just strict objecitve cards that go with each faction. It almost seems silly for them to constantly be going for the same goals in every fleet battle (though some objective cards would have that, because “realistically” it would happen, just not every time).

So what are everyone’s thoughts here with this? I think the CC campaign touched on this in a way, but is this something you’d like to see implemented in the regular game to make it feel more like Star Wars?

Note that in missions(matches) the cap is at 400 points, which is hardly an armada and more like a skirmish. I'd like to think that the Galactic Civil War in space was a deadly game of cat and mouse, contended in small pocket skirmishes like the ones we play, where Imperial forces have to spread out into smaller taskforces to scour a whole galaxy to eliminate a rising rebel threat and the rebels taking opportunity to strike only at smaller imp forces ala guerrilla tactics in space.(I wrote down some fun lore describing how Armada mechanics fit in the SW universe) The closest comparison Armada has to a ... full scale armada fleet battle is the All Out Offensive in the campaign(where the rebels desire to commit to taking a sector and the imps have a better idea where to direct the mass of their forces).

Faction specific objectives does sound like an interesting idea. Eager to see what people come up with

Except at some point a rebellion/ insurgency force must stand and fight or engage in pitch engagements otherwise they will never overcome the oppressive force.

Well the game is designed around competitive play which obviously needs to be balanced to be successful. Likewise in most casual games people really want to be able to use their stuff and fight a pitched battle. It wouldnt be much fun if you were only allowed to field a 400 point rebel fleet one game in ten.

That said there is nothing stopping anyone writing lopsided story missions. Theres all sorts of basis for this such as

- rebel hit and fade attacks on convoys

- trying to take down an isd in dock

- covering a base evacuation

- chasing down the tantive iv.

Etc. You just need a group with enough sense of humour and willingness to do it. The master of the fleet guys did some really cool video batreps in this style.

12 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

The rebels SHOULD have different objectives than the Empire during these engagements. It makes sense that they would not have the same goals all of the time.

That's actually a very interesting idea. And at least at the start of Armada, they could have done that. They could have even gone and said something along the lines of: Rebels build to 300 points, Imps build to 400. But then have the Rebel objectives be like "If you have at least one ship left at the end of round 6, add 100 points to your score" or "If you defend this outpost for all 6 turns, add 150 points to your score" or something like that. Such that they're at a disadvantage throughout the game, but if they succeed in their objective, they will likely still win the round.

This might capture the Star Wars feel more for you... There would be a reason to stick around and fight that VSD (perhaps you were holding off the ground assault while your guys evacuated), the Rebels would feel at a disadvantage in numbers, but they would be fighting with purpose.

It'd be very difficult to balance in competitive play, but something that you might want to consider for a casual night if it truly bothers you that it doesn't feel Star Wars because they have even fleets.

41 minutes ago, Khyros said:

That's actually a very interesting idea. And at least at the start of Armada, they could have done that. They could have even gone and said something along the lines of: Rebels build to 300 points, Imps build to 400. But then have the Rebel objectives be like "If you have at least one ship left at the end of round 6, add 100 points to your score" or "If you defend this outpost for all 6 turns, add 150 points to your score" or something like that. Such that they're at a disadvantage throughout the game, but if they succeed in their objective, they will likely still win the round.

This might capture the Star Wars feel more for you... There would be a reason to stick around and fight that VSD (perhaps you were holding off the ground assault while your guys evacuated), the Rebels would feel at a disadvantage in numbers, but they would be fighting with purpose.

It'd be very difficult to balance in competitive play, but something that you might want to consider for a casual night if it truly bothers you that it doesn't feel Star Wars because they have even fleets.

Just so we’re clear here (since my title isn’t really going along with my point of view) I’m not against the balance in points for each team. It’s necessary for any competitive board game.

I’m against both factions having the exact same objective options since they each have different goals. I think you can introduce this element and “disguise” the fact that it’s still a balanced game by giving each faction a different purpose with what it hopes to achieve each match.

If you really want to justify the game mechanics-

When you have thousands and thousands of systems of planets to look after, you have to spread very thinly.

When you aren’t tied down beyond some hidden locations, you can concentrate a large proportion of your fleet to achieve a mission.

16 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

I’m against both factions having the exact same objective options since they each have different goals. I think you can introduce this element and “disguise” the fact that it’s still a balanced game by giving each faction a different purpose with what it hopes to achieve each match.

Can you give us an example. Have a stab at designing a PRURLE mission with different objectives for Rebel and Imperial sides.

Oh yes and a PRURLE mission is a long standing concept that... err... I have just made up. Defined as a non tournament legal, player designed mission to be played at casual gaming sessions.

Here is my attempt. It may be not quite what you had in mind with vastly different objectives but have a look.

Planetary Landing

Setup: Deploy the station and 2 debris obstacles beyond distance 5 of all table edges. Don't deploy asteroids. The entire Rebel deployment zone is the upper atmosphere of a planet. Any ship or squadron ending its movement in this area is obscured and also counts all targets as obscured. Any ship ending its move in the atmosphere when its speed is greater than one is destroyed. Squadrons that move into or out of the atmosphere have their speed reduced by one that turn.

Forces: Imperials have 3 Gozanti transports each carrying an objective token representing AT-ATs and other landing forces. These transports can have no upgrades and while carrying AT-ATs they replace their Scatter token with a Brace. Imperials also have 250 points of other forces. Rebels have 300 points of forces with 50-100 spent on squadrons.

Special Rule: Any Gozanti that activates while within the atmosphere may do a squadron command or spend a squadron token to remove the objective token from the ship and gain 50 victory points. If a Gozanti is destroyed before delivering its objective token or does not deliver it in 6 turns the Rebels receive 50 victory points.

Why not just call it purple?

14 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

I’m not talking fluff here for story, just more in line with the theme. The rebels SHOULD have different objectives than the Empire during these engagements. It makes sense that they would not have the same goals all of the time.

I like that idea. ??

1 hour ago, Mad Cat said:

Can you give us an example. Have a stab at designing a PRURLE mission with different objectives for Rebel and Imperial sides.

Oh yes and a PRURLE mission is a long standing concept that... err... I have just made up. Defined as a non tournament legal, player designed mission to be played at casual gaming sessions.

Here is my attempt. It may be not quite what you had in mind with vastly different objectives but have a look.

Planetary Landing

Setup: Deploy the station and 2 debris obstacles beyond distance 5 of all table edges. Don't deploy asteroids. The entire Rebel deployment zone is the upper atmosphere of a planet. Any ship or squadron ending its movement in this area is obscured and also counts all targets as obscured. Any ship ending its move in the atmosphere when its speed is greater than one is destroyed. Squadrons that move into or out of the atmosphere have their speed reduced by one that turn.

Forces: Imperials have 3 Gozanti transports each carrying an objective token representing AT-ATs and other landing forces. These transports can have no upgrades and while carrying AT-ATs they replace their Scatter token with a Brace. Imperials also have 250 points of other forces. Rebels have 300 points of forces with 50-100 spent on squadrons.

Special Rule: Any Gozanti that activates while within the atmosphere may do a squadron command or spend a squadron token to remove the objective token from the ship and gain 50 victory points. If a Gozanti is destroyed before delivering its objective token or does not deliver it in 6 turns the Rebels receive 50 victory points.

PRULE you say? Alright.

I’m not down with dictating what has to be played for objectives, such as the gozantis in this situation (which feels more like a scenario than an objective), but I’ll give it a go. Keep in mind these are free of details, because when you include exact details in these things people begin to nitpick instead of focusing on the concept. I’m not in game design, just spitballing overall ideas here.

For the Rebels you could have a Hyperspace Nav point (or blockade run) objective. Both sides set up longways on the table, and the rebels want to “leave” by exiting the far side. This could be getting within range of a marker or just moving the ship off the table.

Imperials could have a planetary bombardment objective. Part of the play area could be designated as the place where if an imperial ship occupies it, said ship can fire from one of its hull zones as a planetary bombardment and score points.

Again, these are without details, but they would make the game feel more like it has more to do with the source material.

Some slight changes, and made so either side could be attacking...

Planetary Landing

Setup: Deploy the station and 2 debris obstacles beyond distance 5 of all table edges. Don't deploy asteroids. The defenders deployment zone is gains the rule Atmosphere. The defending forces may not deploy outside of deployment zone nor be held in reserve by effects like Admiral Raddus.

Atmosphere: Any ship or squadron ending its movement in this area is obscured and also counts all targets as obscured. Movement in, through or out of the atmosphere is reduced by speed one. Ships that start their activation at speed 0 in atmosphere are removed as destroyed.

Forces: Attacker has 3 objective tokens (representing the landing forces), these tokens are placed on up to 3 ships during deployment turn, Ships with one or more objective tokens can only spend Scatter tokens to gain the Brace effect instead of the usual effect generated.

The amount of objective tokens a ship can be equipped with is determined by its size class: small - 1, medium - 2, large -3.

Defender may spend up to 25% of list cost on squadrons.

Special Rule: Any attacking ship that activates while within the atmosphere may discard a squadron dial to remove all the objective tokens from the ship, or a token to remove one, and gain 50 victory points per token removed. If an objective token is not 'delivered' in 6 the defender receive 50 victory points per token not delivered.