I feel like it could be a lot better if it also had a superior postions/solar corona deployment effect on it as well, so the ambushing fleet could deploy with perfect knowledge of the opponents position, which I posit would mitigate somewhat the ability of the first player to attack meaningfully in the first turn/activation.

I was thinking something similar. Why not force the first player to deploy their entire fleet into the ambush zone and then the second player deploys their fleet, and they can deploy in either deployment zone. You could allow them to split their fleet or not.

I was thinking something along the lines of the second player placing objective token(s) on one or more of the first players ships after deployment. (I was thinking as many or as few as they like, but an argument could be made for a fixed(ish) number).

Then a ship with an objective token cannot activate until all friendly ships without objective tokens have activated.

When a ship with an objective token is attacked, the first player may (if he/she chooses) remove the objective token from it.

Not sure if this would make fleet ambush too harsh for first player, but might get it chosen a little more often

3 hours ago, NightAngel47 said:

I was thinking something similar. Why not force the first player to deploy their entire fleet into the ambush zone and then the second player deploys their fleet, and they can deploy in either deployment zone. You could allow them to split their fleet or not.

I think you're misunderstanding the way it's supposed to work. The first player is required to split his fleet which, in theory, allows me to fight half his fleet with all of my fleet. In practice, it doesn't work very well.

If I were to change it, I would do two things. First, move the ambush zone closer to the second player. A ship deployed all the back to the first player, moving slowly, functionally negates the entire point of the objective. I would set it at 5 away from the second player edge, and 7 away from the first player edge. (I am aware, of course, that there is no "7' on the ruler)

Second, I would let the second player place all obstacles. I'm doing the ambushing, so I get to pick the location.

With these changes, I could more easily force the opportunity to separate one or two of the enemy's ships from the rest of his fleet, and then defeat those ships in detail.

I'm not too upset about the fighters, or the possibility of Demolisher. That just separates them from their fleet even further. I'm similarly not worried about them fielding their flotillas, or their ISD up front. If they give me the ability to strip out their extra activations, I'll take it, and if they give me the chance to overwhelm their ISD without distraction, I'll take that too.

2nd play deploys up to 50 % of their ships (ship count not cost) at speed 1 or 0 & 50% of their sqns in a zone of range 5 by 5 in the centre of the board. 1 st player then deploys their fleet within range 2 of a board edge.

Starting from turn 2 the second player can bring on 1 ship and 2 sqns at max speed from a randomly determined board edge.

the first player scores the cost of all destroyed 2nd player ships and sqns. The 2nd player only scores the cost of their surviving ships and sqns

10 hours ago, slasher956 said:

2nd play deploys up to 50 % of their ships (ship count not cost) at speed 1 or 0 & 50% of their sqns in a zone of range 5 by 5 in the centre of the board. 1 st player then deploys their fleet within range 2 of a board edge.

Starting from turn 2 the second player can bring on 1 ship and 2 sqns at max speed from a randomly determined board edge.

the first player scores the cost of all destroyed 2nd player ships and sqns. The 2nd player only scores the cost of their surviving ships and sqns

I apologize in advance, this is going to be harsh. That sounds terrible to me.

• 2nd player is limited in what speed they deploy at.
• They deploy in the center of the board, probably with 1st player flanking them.
• 2nd player doesn't get to deploy all of their fleet.
• Their reinforcements trickle in, instead of being able to bring them all in.
• Where the reinforcements pop in is determined randomly.
• They have no choice in the speed of reinforcements.
• AND their score is reduced.

Why would I ever put this into my suite of objectives?

My buddy and I played this objective and we adjusted it a little. The middle, "Ambush Zone" was made to be a range 4 wide area down the middle of the board, the long way, which ended at medium ranged from the board edge. The one being ambushed (the second player) must deploy their entire fleet inside of the area. Then the second player may place obsticales as they see, between the ambush area and the deployment area of the attacker. The defender cannot be above speed 2 at the beginning of the game.

The attacker had the normal range 3 deployment area, but may deploy on BOTH sides of the board, and deployed their forces after the defender had placed obsticales. This allowed for the attacker to plan while the defender was deploying and such.

We felt it was a good game too. I had my VSD and TIES on one side and my Arquetins on the other, came in and started broadsiding.

2 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

My buddy and I played this objective and we adjusted it a little. The middle, "Ambush Zone" was made to be a range 4 wide area down the middle of the board, the long way, which ended at medium ranged from the board edge. The one being ambushed ( the second player ) must deploy their entire fleet inside of the area. Then the second player may place obsticales as they see, between the ambush area and the deployment area of the attacker. The defender cannot be above speed 2 at the beginning of the game.

The attacker had the normal range 3 deployment area, but may deploy on BOTH sides of the board, and deployed their forces after the defender had placed obsticales. This allowed for the attacker to plan while the defender was deploying and such.

We felt it was a good game too. I had my VSD and TIES on one side and my Arquetins on the other, came in and started broadsiding.

Just curious: Why did you have second player be the one who was ambushed? The objectives are meant to give advantages to the second player to compensate for the inherent advantage of being first player.

32 minutes ago, stonestokes said:

I apologize in advance, this is going to be harsh. That sounds terrible to me.

Why would I ever put this into my suite of objectives?

Oh, the problem is far worse. The second player has an incentive to set up as far away as possible, facing away from the first player, at maximum speed, and just run for it until reinforcements show up.

The basic idea has some great elements, though. Scoring points for saving your ships is really interesting, even if it encourages avoiding ever having combat.

Obvious rule problem: "2nd play deploys up to 50 % of their ships (ship count not cost) at speed 1 or 0 & 50% of their sqns in a zone of range 5 by 5 in the centre of the board. 1 st player then deploys their fleet within range 2 of a board edge."

Zero is less than 50%. I suppose I have to deploy one ship to avoid being instantly tabled, but ...

9 minutes ago, elbmc1969 said:

Oh, the problem is far worse. The second player has an incentive to set up as far away as possible, facing away from the first player, at maximum speed, and just run for it until reinforcements show up.

He has the second player deploy first, and the first player allowed to deploy near any board edge. It is difficult to know which way to face as second player.

47 minutes ago, stonestokes said:

Just curious: Why did you have second player be the one who was ambushed? The objectives are meant to give advantages to the second player to compensate for the inherent advantage of being first player.

When we played it we didnt do the normal determinaton. We just wanted to have a fun battle, so we determined that in an Ambush, the AMBUSHER iniates the combat, so they should be the 1st player. The Ambushed doesnt know whats going to happen so they are second. In that... Player 1 went first on the first turn...

You know, in, real... military stuff that is.

OK, here's how you actually fix Fleet Ambush:

Reverse it. Second player may choose to deploy odd numbered deployments in the ambush zone. First player still may not deploy squads until all ships are down.

Fleet Ambush was clearly designed while accounting only for wave 1 and maybe wave 2 cards. All of the advantages it supposedly gives to second player don't exist and the advantages it gives to first player are substantial.

Major advantages to first player:

Able to deploy most or all combat ships and squadrons closer to their targets, with first player advantage

Able to deploy non- combat ships well away from the fight, or directly fleeing the fight.

Drastically more maneuver options for engagement or escape from the "ambush zone" than the "ambushers."

In easy striking range via squadrons to second player deployments, Squadrons can be deployed inside Distance 1 of most targets including enemy squadrons.

By reversing the order of who gets the zone, Second player can use these to their own advantage.

12 hours ago, slasher956 said:

2nd play deploys up to 50 % of their ships (ship count not cost) at speed 1 or 0 & 50% of their sqns in a zone of range 5 by 5 in the centre of the board. 1 st player then deploys their fleet within range 2 of a board edge.

Starting from turn 2 the second player can bring on 1 ship and 2 sqns at max speed from a randomly determined board edge.

the first player scores the cost of all destroyed 2nd player ships and sqns. The 2nd player only scores the cost of their surviving ships and sqns

You understand that objectives are supposed to give Player 2 an advantage, right...? The point of objectives from a mechanical perspective is to balance the advantage of going first.

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 3:57 PM, stonestokes said:

Setup: On the first player's odd deployments, starting with the first deployment, the second player chooses one of the first player's ships. The first player must deploy that ship in the ambush zone. When deploying squadrons, the first player must place the squadrons within distance 1-2 of ships not in the ambush zone. After deploying fleets, place one objective token on each ship in the ambush zone.

End of Game: The fleet point cost of a destroyed objective ship is doubled. Do not double the cost of its upgrade cards.

I would make each token worth a nominal set amount.. like 10-20 points, same if it's on a flotilla or large ship, but otherwise like this setup a lot.

11 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

You understand that objectives are supposed to give Player 2 an advantage, right...? The point of objectives from a mechanical perspective is to balance the advantage of going first.

No I didn't....

but who is to save we can't get some variant.... or simply change the 1st and 2nd player round

40 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

No I didn't....

Ok, that makes sense. I withdraw my harsh criticism, and again apologize.

Yeah, having first player is a really strong advantage. The purpose behind the objectives is to push some of that advantage back toward the second player.

Of course you are free to play with variants where one player or the other have all of the advantages, and I can see where that could be a fun way to play from time to time.

Now back to the discussion of how to fix Fleet Ambush so that it advantages second player...

Fix:

while one of the 1st players’ ships or squadrons is in the ambush zone, it cannot spend defense tokens.

That feels like an ambush (Works against Sloane/TRCs as well). Perhaps it could even work on “exhaust” upgrades (Adar Talon, engine techs, Intel Officer. And maybe, an alternative could go so far as to prevent a ship from resolving commands, but I feel that would make the objective unplayable.

... I think slapping Detective Bobby Simon on your ship and taking Fleet Ambush isn't getting enough attention. That plus a Raddus Fleet can MESS SOMEONE UP.

23 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

... I think slapping Detective Bobby Simon on your ship and taking Fleet Ambush isn't getting enough attention. That plus a Raddus Fleet can MESS SOMEONE UP.

But then we get pigeonholed into using a single Commander and/or a single upgrade (both of the same faction) to make the objective viable as is.

I think your point is valid, in that they can make the objective useful for second player, but it doesn’t address the objective in the wider game. It still offers the second player no inherent advantage.

32 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

... I think slapping Detective Bobby Simon on your ship and taking Fleet Ambush isn't getting enough attention. That plus a Raddus Fleet can MESS SOMEONE UP.

By "Detective Bobby Simon" I'm assuming you are referring to Bail Organa, and while I agree he can help this objective I just don't think he makes that much of a marked improvement. First, you'll have to deploy a large ship in striking distance of your target (if even possible) which will have to be the first activation. And the thing is, I CAN SEE THAT. And I can prepare for it by either deploying outside of striking distance, or by carefully deploying to ensure I will weather the opening attack, then retaliate with overwhelming force. Unlike the second player, as first player I have immense flexibility in where I deploy but my opponent is restricted to their normal deployment zone.

This is where my solution works: By allowing the second player to choose to place up to half their ships into the ambush zone, you have given them the ability to set up a trap where they can forward deploy their ships and squadrons to be most effective. No additional turn hijinks are necessary, the second player has a clear advantage, and the first player is suddenly restricted again in where they can deploy their ships and squadrons exactly as was intended by the original card.