58 minutes ago, heliodorus04 said:

(X-wing is pay2win because of capitalism.)

Then how would you explain Warhammer 40,000 because Games Workshop makes Fantasy Flight Games look like a charity.

Actually you would be surprised to see how many Americans don't want technology and more expensive things to be interjected in their sports in place of skill. NASCAR insists that all cars are manufactured to a basic "stock" standard when there are clearly modifications that can improve speed and performance. MLB put out manufacturing requirements for metal baseball bats to make them perform closer to wooden bats. Lets not forget that the Battlefront 2 outrage was also American led.

Say what you want it is still in the minds of many that gaming is considered to be a luxury item and not a leisure item so when you step away from the free markets such thing is the first to get cut and then you are left with the underground which are dominated by games that involve gambling (poker was more popular than chess). Thanks to history we can see a system which could show us how games were like when they had to be mandated as a necessity before they could be manufactured and sold.

Granted I am not happy with our current markets in America with Net Neutrality and MegaCorp eating up and controlling the entire wealth of nations. That is because we are moving from Capitalism to something called Consumer Capitalism, thanks to credit scores, social metadata, psychological marketing, and geoeconomic divisions we are moving from consumer controlled markets, to a system where consumers are now the commodity being bought and sold on the markets. Consumer Capitalism is not Capitalism nor is it Consumer friendly. Nor is it the inevitable system that all capitalism devolves to. Freedom isn't free and everyone has to fight for the rights and that includes the rights of consumers.

As a competitive player I agree with the OP. You should all buy the bad ships, not the good ones.

I haven’t had many chances to play competitively (two small store tournaments, so far), but I for one definitely prefer the idea of counter-meta. I may not be the best example, owning all of the last few waves (except scum), but not everyone is pay-to-win.

4 hours ago, E Chu Ta said:

Funny, if you were an American, you'd know the American motto is "Can I get a **** Yeah?" As spoken by Saint Stone Cold of Austin at the battle of Antietam. You are exposed, you black flag communist infiltrator who is bold or foolish enough to speak for all of any huge and varied population of different people. Your crass generalization has nothing to do with X-Wing, you have some kind of Soviet-Era axe to grind with the Greatest Show On Earth Greatest Country in the World (TM) due to a what I can only assume to be an evergrowing inferiority complex due to having lost the Revolutionary War.

You don't speak for me.

That reaction is so priceless. Black Flag communist infiltrator. Priceless. So ******* priceless. But I shall not take the bait.

21 hours ago, Polda said:

I have some questions:

Are you sure competitive players using them make up a significant enough portion of the sales figures to make an impact?

How would you like to achieve this? Should everyone stop buying Resistance Bombers, itself a fair ship because of that one card? And should every player who bought into Scum via Most Wanted return that pack?

What about people who do not play Nym, but use Scurrg generics (4 Karthakk Pirates for example). Are they more responsible for Nym shenanigans?

It's not like you buy the broken stuff in separate packs.

I would say that since the decision to push ordinance is what pushed most pilots out of the game, dont buy ordinance carriers until FFG dial it back.

additionally ships which can equip 8 upgrades are absurd. its a miniature game, not a card game

6 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

I would say that since the decision to push ordinance is what pushed most pilots out of the game, dont buy ordinance carriers until FFG dial it back.

additionally ships which can equip 8 upgrades are absurd. its a miniature game, not a card game

Well there was a lot of unused mechanics because FFG didn't quite understand dice statistics as well as it has been explained now. The Proton Torpedo wasn't a bad idea, but when you put the statistics together they don't stack up compared to 3 attack with rerolls.

The problem is and as I said before it went on other ships that didn't need to fill the roll. Paul Heaver back in Wave 4 said the game had sort of a paper-rock-scissors balance where it was swarm-turret-arc dodger. However as defense got better the point fortress tactic started to show where Swarms would lose to turrets due to MOV because they couldn't kill the large ship where the large ship would only have to destroy a few smaller weaker ships and avoid the rest till the end of the game, in the final cut it is divide and conquer taking them out 1 by one as they could block out the weaker swarm ship's shots.

Many people said either nerf turrets or make swarms better but really they didn't look into the fundamental mechanics of the meta and what made them good. Turrets were out in Wave 2 but didn't became a thing until Wave 4 where the TIE Phantom shown how powerful maneuver re-positioning was especially at skill 9 when all the hidden information has been revealed. TIE swarms won by merit of jousting efficiency. They could throw out more dice, had more hitpoints to go through all at the 100 point mark. No other list could top that, but they would be ineffective against ships that could block or even avoid their attacks.

Now if say the U-boats combo were on a ship that had no turret primary or secondary weapon say like the TIE-Punisher. It wouldn't have been an issue because it would have filled the gap left by TIE Swarms. A good Alpha strike build would have cracked open fat turret builds, but against a ship that could prevent their attacks by staying out of firing arcs they would have struggled. In the mean time turrets and arc dodgers could have kept their same positioning.

However FFG had another problem to correct and that was 2 hard damage mitigation from C-3PO, Palp and token banks. 3 agility with 2 focus and an evade token was nearly impossible to hit. The only way to get past something like that is throwing nothing less than 6 dice at it per attack. To give FFG credit they did a good job at making something that wouldn't always one shot kill a TIE-Bomber, and that is the Twin Laser Turret. Say what you want the TLT is rather low on its damage output. The only thing though is (and again shows FFG's overall lack of understanding on dice statistics) is it is effectively more reliable than a 3 primary turret weapon. So on an average output a TLT will get more damage than a Falcon.

(e: @Vontoothskie, not @Marinealver) I thought you're selling your stuff anyway? So why should anyone listen to a person who is on their way out?
You clearly don't enjoy the game outside of beer&pretzel nights.

By the way, did you ever apologize for strongly demanding an apology from the FAQ leakers? I must have missed that.

Many warned against "fixing" ordnance back before wave 7 was released.
Once you have viable ordnance, then dogfighting is unnecessary and alpha strikes are the norm. Many ships will be blown up before getting to do anything, so they won't be played.

10 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

I would say that since the decision to push ordinance is what pushed most pilots out of the game, dont buy ordinance carriers until FFG dial it back.

additionally ships which can equip 8 upgrades are absurd. its a miniature game, not a card game

The game has some simulationist component. Ships in this game try to mimic ships in the lore. If the K-wing had 18 hardpoints, multiple crew, multiple turrets, and could perform bombing runs, then the ship in this game attempts to reflect that.
Miranda has been in the game since wave 7. She was good back then, but nobody ever attempted to load her up with 50 points of upgrades because she would be blown up by aces, TLTs, defenders, stress, or focus fire from 3 or 4 ships at a time. When the torpboats drove lots of ships out of the game, like b-wings and other high attack high hit point fighters, along with the nerfing of palpatine and aces and defenders, the disappearance of the stresshog, the reduction of squad sized down to 2 ships, and above anything else, the release of Sabine crew, that was the moment when Miranda became much better choice.
But it has taken the game a lot of nerfing and buffing to put her there.
I don't think you need to alter Miranda's text or stats. Just bring her predators back. Make it viable again to bring lots of ships that can overwhelm her regen.

You can do that by nerfing bombs. They definitely don't need the buff of Sabine anymore. Before, it was really hard to hit anyone with your 5 points proton bomb to be worth to equip it. Nowadays we have lots of cheaper, more effective bombs that can be deployed more easily, or that they don't need to be discarded. Make Sabine roll a die to halve her damage contribution.

About big upgrade bards, I think the way to go is how they have dealt with the Gunboat. That ship can equip a talent, two torpedoes, two missiles, and two cannons. BUT not at the same time.
It asks the player to make a choice: you get extra upgrade icons for a cost, and you cannot have all of them at the same time. That will prevent nasty interactions.
The Scurgg does this at a lower level with the Havoc title. But they should have gone further with this.
They could have given it a couple extra titles or something that add either the System and Crew slots or the Turret and Astromech slot, but not both at the same time given the nasty Autocorrector combo, or Genius/Trajectory combo.
So, Nym could go around with TLT and Genius with bombs, or Trajectory and Sabine/Cad Bane with bombs.

BTW. do you really need to nerf Sabine and not better just change her altogether? She could for example lose her damage boost and instead add two bomb slots. Bomblets for everyone! Which fits her thematically as she is the wonder kid who builds super weapons.

2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

However FFG had another problem to correct and that was 2 hard damage mitigation from C-3PO, Palp and token banks. 3 agility with 2 focus and an evade token was nearly impossible to hit. The only way to get past something like that is throwing nothing less than 6 dice at it per attack...

...or by throwing multiple attacks at it, or by blocking it's movement and denying it the token stack, or by causing autodamage to it, or by stressing it...

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

(e: @Vontoothskie, not @Marinealver) I thought you're selling your stuff anyway? So why should anyone listen to a person who is on their way out?
You clearly don't enjoy the game outside of beer&pretzel nights.

By the way, did you ever apologize for strongly demanding an apology from the FAQ leakers? I must have missed that.

To his credit, @Vontoothskie did apologize in the thread he started on the subject. It does not seem to have left a lasting lesson, however.

11 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

...

By the way, did you ever apologize for strongly demanding an apology from the FAQ leakers? I must have missed that.

No, and I never will. Take your vendetta elsewhere.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

No, and I never will. Take your vendetta elsewhere.

Did you read who I asked? Try again

52 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Did you read who I asked? Try again

Then why even bother putting the tag @GreenDragoon (not @_________)anyways? See _________ this was not you. I just wanted to flag your notifications so that everyone would know it is not you I am talking to.

I still have X-wing Epic, it is safe from the cancer that is plaguing X-wing meta and no it is not turrets. CR-90 has a firepower 4 turret at range 5 and it is not broken. The cancer is the Nerf Herders claiming that their game is ruined and relay convincing FFG to ruin their own game for the sake of balance. There is now a noob trap and I am not talking about an OP item that only noob players use, I am talking about a caveat emptor in X-wing.

7 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Then why even bother putting the tag @GreenDragoon (not @SabineKey )anyways? See SabineKey this was not you. I just wanted to flag your notifications so that everyone would know it is not you I am talking to.

dude, relax. I wrote the reply at the same time as you. After I had hit submit you were suddenly inbetween me and Vontoothskie. I know how you immediately feel attacked by me so I made and indicated the edit that I did not mean you.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

dude, relax. I wrote the reply at the same time as you. After I had hit submit you were suddenly inbetween me and Vontoothskie. I know how you immediately feel attacked by me so I made and indicated the edit that I did not mean you.

okay, yeah the new forum updates can be a little tricky. (the double post bug still exists). My apologies for overacting a little. I will apologies for something like this.

literal lol. The last sentence made my day.

I'm only here because I need some tin foil for my pizza.

1 minute ago, stuffedskullcat said:

I'm only here because I need some tin foil for my pizza.

You won’t find any spare foil here. These guys need every square inch.

Time to buy a resistance bomber.

All the fighters that I love have been power creeped (power crept?) out of the game. I got into the game because of the X-Wing PC series and yet now all I see at my FLGS ships are the latest and greatest with 2 autodamage for every green die you roll, bombs that cover 90% of the playing field and distance 6 s-loops that instacrit you if they finish their movements within range 3 of you.

I'd love to bring a good old fashioned TIE swarm to the table to actually have fun, but it would get wiped with likely no damage to my opponent. I don't want to tailor my fun around a winning list, I want to tailor my win around my having fun. That's supposed to be the point of games like these outside of tournaments (and at least a significant point within the tournaments). But all the casual players have been driven away from the 2 LGS in my area, everything that isn't meta sits on the shelf unbought, and I haven't played an actual game in nearly a year because there's nothing left but power gamers.

I dare anybody to deny that X-Wing has lost the soul that it had in the first few waves. I see more and more of WG's 'game breaking new product of the cycle' in FFG's releases.

In the meantime, I've taken up Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker. Believe it or not, there's less power creep in that game.

3 minutes ago, flyboymb said:

I dare anybody to deny that X-Wing has lost the soul that it had in the first few waves. I see more and more of WG's 'game breaking new product of the cycle' in FFG's releases.

I had a game on Saturday where I barrel rolled and boosted through arcs. It was awesome! And both used a competitive list.

Vader and Poe are still remainders of the past, and so is Kylo, ironically. (So much for ‚let the past die‘ ...)

It‘s not fair to say it has lost its soul. The game definitely changed, and we do not have to like the change. But the newer players who were attracted by this game DO LIKE the game, because they stayed!

I mourn swarms though, especially miniswarms with 5 ships. That just looked awesome!

Bring gunboats instead of the TIE-Fighters.

3 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Bring gunboats instead of the TIE-Fighters.

I've got 3. But the fact remains that a huge portion of X-Wing's releases are pretty much unplayable. Has anybody mathed up a list of which fighters are just incapable of competing in the current meta? I'd like to see how long it is.

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I had a game on Saturday where I barrel rolled and boosted through arcs. It was awesome! And both used a competitive list.

Vader and Poe are still remainders of the past, and so is Kylo, ironically. (So much for ‚let the past die‘ ...)

It‘s not fair to say it has lost its soul. The game definitely changed, and we do not have to like the change. But the newer players who were attracted by this game DO LIKE the game, because they stayed!

I mourn swarms though, especially miniswarms with 5 ships. That just looked awesome!

That's legitimately nice to hear. At my store, lists are built around gimmicks rather than your ability to pilot fighters with skill. Call me a scrub if you'd like, but I'm the kind of guy that would go into DnD wanting to evolve a character around the experience that I'm having and just have fun with the narrative. But these days, all the players are starting characters as Jetpack Bards because somebody figured out that you can equip them with five spells that can turn all opponents into gold every hour while their supersonic ability allows them to automatically pass all defense dice.

The soul of this game was outguessing your opponent in order to line up a shot that he/she couldn't respond to. Get Backstabber into range 1 for some real hurting only to have an unexpected K turn hoping that your green dice would hold up. They literally killed that by releasing stuff like infinite bomb generators and turrets that fire twice with the attack power of the most vanilla defense dice you can wield in a game.

The first time I had to fight against 4 TLT Y-Wings running laps across the map, I realized that the game had been lobotomized. It may have put a nice bow over the scar, but the tissue is still missing in the game in my area.

44 minutes ago, flyboymb said:

I've got 3. But the fact remains that a huge portion of X-Wing's releases are pretty much unplayable. Has anybody mathed up a list of which fighters are just incapable of competing in the current meta? I'd like to see how long it is.

Currently not seeing any table time:

Uhm... I actually can't think of a single ship, while most likely 90% of the PILOTs not seeing play.
The new wave stuff sees play, a firespray just won a regional, Captain Rex is the ultimate TIE-Fighter, Palp sees table time with QD, Defenders, OL, Inq, Soontir … an Rebel Operative won in november a small national …

A wait. Phantoms. I think the TIE-Phantom is actually dead. And the upsilon, punisher, mist hunter and u-wing were both dead on arrival releases which never got fixed.
That's 5 out of 47 or so ships. 90% of the ships see table time even when most of the ships only have 1 pilot going for them. Though I hear some people have been semi-successful with punishers recently based on the TS. I don't feel it, so I still list them as dead. Someone recently mentioned that with the new upgrades in his area B-Wings are going strong again. So I will not list those.

Anyway, if you got 3 Gunboats, add Quickdraw and you have a classic jousting list, effective in the current meta, maybe qualifying even as mini-swarm in your eyes, completely arc dependent and imho the most competitive list in the current meta (since the latest FAQ)