Has anyone else been following the roots of that December UFO story? It was in the New York Times, Politico and the Washington Post.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.amp.html

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/16/pentagon-ufo-search-harry-reid-216111

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/12/18/former-navy-pilot-describes-encounter-with-ufo-studied-by-secret-pentagon-program/

The people releasing all this are part of an insane-sounding collection of US military, aerospace and intelligence professionals. The verified members of this group are:

Robert Weiss(Lockheed exec)

General McCasland(Ran the Air Force’s research efforts)

Susan McCasland Wilkerson(Raytheon exec)

Luis Elizondo(ran the Pentagon UFO investigations)

Hal Puthoff(CIA contractor and propulsion researcher)

Steve Justice(Skunk Works Director)

John Podesta(Clinton/Obama WH administrations)

Jim Semivan, Chis Mellon, others (CIA OR EX-CIA)

This group of people is known to be working with or for To The Stars, Inc. This company is the brainchild of Tom Delonge, the guy who quit Blink-182 to study aliens and UFOs. A few years back Tom started telling this insane story about how he was in contact with all these people at the top of NASA, USAF and the Aerospace industry. In general, people kind of ignored it. I know I did. This group is saying they’re going to demo reverse-engineered electrigravitic drives within the next couple years. It’s crazy, fringe stuff, even among UFO believers.

But then Wikileaks happened and the Emails/meetings between Tom Delonge, John Podesta and others were made public.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/delonge-blink-182-aliens-podesta/

Suddenly, it was clear that Tom really was meeting with top brass all over the US government. He claimed they would be slowly disclosing some of the secret history of UFOs and the US government and the private sector. He came out with a kind of historical fiction book that made some INSANE claims about everything from WWII forward. He said they are planning to demo real-world tech that would allow a global 30-minute transportation with zero carbon emissions.

But still, people wondered why he didn’t just spill the beans. Why go quiet for like a year after Wikileaks? What could possibly be taking so long? Then those three stories broke in December and they claim there are dozens of similar stories to be released. It seems like it’s really true. Several ex-government officials really are in the process of disclosing some of what we know about UFOs, which are apparently a very real phenomenon.

The only other way I can kind of explain what is happening is if this is some kind of trick to make China or Russia think we have reverse-engineered alien tech.

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole and see how disturbing these people’s beliefs are, watch these. Warning: you’re going to hear some stuff that sounds too stupid to be believable. But these CIA, USAF and aerospace leaders are all pushing this stuff out. This one is before Wikileaks.

This is after the election and after Wikileaks has disclosed his contacts, particularly the ones that were never supposed to be public. Warning: 4 hours of crazy.

This is his most recent interview. It was a disaster. I think mostly because he was trying to reveal a lot less. There’s a lot of “I can’t talk about that” and “You don’t know what I know”. But if you have watched the other two it makes a lot of sense in context.

Finally: The announcement from last October that nobody noticed until the December press stories.

Additional reliable info about the topic:

UFOs and Nukes, a 6-hour documentary on Amazon Prime. Lots of air force missileers talking about repeated tampering and shutdowns in our nuclear missiles when UFOs were present.

In 2010 lots of these men came forward to the US press. A month later the US had the largest failure of our nuclear weapons ever known to the public.

This person, a respectable head of philosophy and religion at a decent-sized university, is coming out with a book later this spring where she claims to have been exposed to a secret world of tech billionaires who are and have been trying to reverse-engineer tech so advanced that “it’s like if you took a garage-door opener to the Stone Age”. She calls the things “artifacts”, suggesting that these things have been here for at least thousands of years. She seems highly credible, despite the outlandish claims. Well worth a listen.

http://radiomisterioso.com/2017/12/20/dr-diana-walsh-pasulka-american-cosmic/

Disclaimer: I don't have the time to watch the videos, so this might be a little uninformed.

I, too, have found these reports interesting and have enjoyed following them through your posts here, TasteTheRainbow. However, I'm not sure there is as yet much reason to diverge from our previously held scepticism.

It seems that what we've learned is that the United States armed forces recently held a period of study on UFOs. There have been new (2010) reports of UFOs tampering with U.S. missile operations. There is a new (December) USN sighting report and video. And a number of highly respectable individuals believe that UFOs are aliens or are or have been involved with UFO research.

I'd like to address each of these in turn and close by presenting an alternate explanation. I'd like to say at the outset that I'm not inherently opposed to the idea of the existence of aliens, nor that they might wish to study Earth, I just don't want to accept anything too readily.

1. The United States has studied UFOs. This isn't really new evidence that UFOs are aliens, as the U.S. studied UFO reports in the '40s-'60s. Furthermore, it seems that the chief proponent of the program (Senator Reid) was predisposed to believe in them.

2. Servicemen report that UFOs have interfered with U.S. missile operations. These reports cannot be disproven because, naturally (as far as I know), documentation of activities at US missile bases is classified, so any alternate technical explanations are unavailable to us. It is a principle of science and reason, though, that a claim must be proven to be known to be true, not only impossible to disprove.

3. There has been a new high-profile sighting and video. As for American official research, this isn't really new evidence, as UFO sightings, including video, have a long history. Unless told otherwise by an expert, the video doesn't seem to be clear enough to unequivocally represent an alien craft. It's my perception (perhaps false) that most of these sightings and videos usually end up having a mundane explanation, and that those that can't be explained yet don't really constitute enough evidence of anything to lead us to endorse a whole new thought paradigm (that aliens are likely real).

4. Some respected or accomplished individuals believe that UFOs are aliens. On the other hand, so many more don't. And people of all stripes, including highly accomplished ones, believe all manner of things some would consider to be unna--uh, that others would consider questionable. Some people are superstitious. Some believe in ghosts. Some are taken in by pseudoscience or the latest trend in health that isn't rigorous. A very great many believe in God (I do), which a very great many others view as foolish. Some people deny climate change. Some people are creationists.

My alternate explanation I don't think is new at all and probably has a proper name, though I don't know what it is. I suspect that many UFO sightings, and more importantly the belief that something unusual someone sees is a UFO, or that a genuine UFO is an alien, is a psychological phenomenon. I.e., one has heard of people interpreting unusual sights as UFOs, so one is inclined to likewise interpret what one sees within that framework. That so many of the more prominent sightings are military adds to this: as members of a subculture, servicepeople are inclined to identify with each other and exhibit some of the same ideas and perceptions as they do. This is not to discount that some of the sightings are real: both Commander Fravor and his camera perceived an unidentifiable object. But the choice to interpret it as an alien may be psychologically founded.

I think the plausibility of this explanation can be seen by other instances of shared belief: ghost encounters, as above, witch scares, popular belief in the Angels (or archers) of Mons, fake news, conspiracy theories, post-death experience stories, old wives' tales. We know that memory is fallible: people will add broken glass to the scene of a car crash in their minds when it wasn't there. People can trick themselves into playing roles, as in that famous experiment of a mock prison camp. I strongly suspect there are studies nearer to the mark than those, but I don't remember any from my psych electives.

In short, I think UFO sightings--or, rather, the belief that UFOs are aliens--may be a phenomenon of 20th/21st-century Western, particularly North American, culture, including military culture. As fascinating as it is to read and speculate about, I don't think I've seen anything that would strongly suggest we should distance ourselves from this conservative appraisal and begin to believe earnestly in a more radical one. The possibility, as ever, is there, but I think we need far more incontrovertible evidence before it becomes more than indistinct.

If you read all this, thanks; I hope it doesn't put too much of a damper on your enthusiasm for the subject. To know that there was a viable method for interplanetary travel would be immensely satisfying, personally, and meeting a whole other civilization would be neat beyond description. I just don't want to get my hopes up too much yet.

You should give those a listen and read the exact words of the Wikileaks emails. These aren’t suspicions. These are people working day to day with recovered materials. Or, you know, liars. (a real possibility)

Ok, I'll look into it some more when I have some time.

Of course UFOs are real. By definition, they're "unidentified" objects.

It's a logical fallacy to leap to "UFOs are alien spacecraft" without evidence, though. BTW, at that point they're not UFOs -- they would be "identified" flying objects as alien spacecraft.

Of course the US military has and is studying unidentified flying objects. They're not trying to find alien spacecraft or prove UFOs are aliens -- they're trying to identify unidentified objects in case they represent a threat, a potential enemy who has made a technical breakthrough, whatever. Even the recently released/acknowledged study makes perfect sense in that light (before the conspiracy wackos got hold of it, anyway) -- it was a study to identify and classify signatures of aerial phenomenon that would be very necessary to help identify and classify aircraft and missile threats.

Funny how people who go out looking for conspiracies always seem to find them.

52 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Of course UFOs are real. By definition, they're "unidentified" objects.

It's a logical fallacy to leap to "UFOs are alien spacecraft" without evidence, though. BTW, at that point they're not UFOs -- they would be "identified" flying objects as alien spacecraft.

Of course the US military has and is studying unidentified flying objects. They're not trying to find alien spacecraft or prove UFOs are aliens -- they're trying to identify unidentified objects in case they represent a threat, a potential enemy who has made a technical breakthrough, whatever. Even the recently released/acknowledged study makes perfect sense in that light (before the conspiracy wackos got hold of it, anyway) -- it was a study to identify and classify signatures of aerial phenomenon that would be very necessary to help identify and classify aircraft and missile threats.

Funny how people who go out looking for conspiracies always seem to find them.

These people aren’t just chasing lights in the sky. They have recovered pieces of them. And no, it isn’t just a case of aliens popping by. They think it’s a lot weirder than that.

Hmm, not off to a good start -- the aliens are destroyed by love ...

Edit: Okay, I stopped listening to the first one after ~the first hour; apparently the next segment was going to be more of the 'consciousness' stuff that really doesn't help the case. Going to try the To The Stars one in hopes it has more about the physical claims.

The CIA believes in that consciousness stuff. Lockheed’s Skunk Works people do. I know it sounds insane, hence the warning lol.

I think “destroyed” is a misleading word in that context.

I listened to the To The Stars one. Which one has the stuff about 'people working day to day with recovered materials'?

Unfortunately, the CIA has also been interested in such things as remote viewing, i.e., psychic intelligence gathering a la Stranger Things.

After looking into the backgrounds of a few of the people associated with Mr. Delonge, I have to say that they 1) seem, as a generalization, to be people who are predisposed to be credulous with regard to extraterrestrials, their interest sometimes originating at a young age, and 2) don't know anything, but wish to know more. I found this article particularly instructive:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/leslie-kean/is-there-a-ufo-coverup-a-_b_9865184.html

Christopher Mellon basically says he's always been interested in UFOs, that despite his lofty position he's not aware of any real information, and that there are all these really interesting UFO stories we should look into. That seems to be a major goal of Tom Delonge's To The Stars organization: to gather information from amateur observers about UFOs, which should supposedly lead to actionable insights for the Aerospace team. If Steve Justice, its head, had reliable information on extraterrestrial craft or even recovered technology available, he shouldn't have left his position at Lockheed Martin for this tenuous basis for the development of new technology.

This leaves the sensational UFO story the To The Stars panel used to back its claim, the Cdr. David Fravor/U.S.S. Nimitz one. I decided to look into this UFO sighting and discovered that the video is more than likely being misinterpreted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIl4peYb59E

https://www.metabunk.org/2004-uss-nimitz-tic-tac-ufo-flir-footage.t9190/ (same author)

There is Cdr. Fravor's personal testimony as well, but humans are, of course, among the least reliable witnesses of events (in terms of accuracy and interpretation, not honesty).

It seems that at least some of the To The Stars personnel are genuinely enthusiastic about the project, but it's also apparent to me that they wish to learn more, not that they have existing information to divulge. Tom DeLonge seems to read too much into his colleagues' interest and to have a mystical/spiritualizing and nonconformist personality that leads him down rabbit trails of thought. I'm not at all good at reading people, but it's also possible some are taking advantage of this opportunity to benefit from the $2.4 million in investments raised (plus apparently $600 000 of DeLonge's own money) and anything else they think they'll make from the media arm. I'm reminded of that famous, apparently probably inauthentic, L. Ron Hubbard quote, 'Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion.' This isn't a religion -- although its claims to offer windows into spiritual truths (with a universalizing bent) is disturbing.

In sum, I have to say, respectfully and regretfully, that the more I look into this, the more BS (to use your term from the other thread ) I find. Mr. DeLonge seems highly uncredible, his contacts and colleagues not to have any real information, just hopes, and the physical evidence to have been misappraised or simply nowhere to be found. Unfortunately, I think I believe that UFOs might be aliens less for having looked into it.

I think truths on which to base our appraisal of the world or from which to derive personal satisfaction can be found in the surer areas of history, science, psychological science, literature, and religion (though the last requires acknowledged leaps of faith that lead many to discount it). And I have to say that they are generally just as interesting, and provide far greater depths to plumb, than what I've seen of UFO research. I hope you'll seek them out, if you don't already!

Thanks for reading again!

Yea I don’t think the videos are very convincing in a vacuum. But if your argument is that at least 8 different pilots and a half-dozen radar operators either made this up or hallucinated it I don’t think that’s very convincing.

Why do you think General McCasland and Steve Justice are associated with it? You’re right about Chris Mellon, but there are other people there that aren’t just helping someone with a quick scam lol.

My argument is that they misunderstood what they saw.

First of all, we haven't (to my knowledge) actually heard from most of those people. They might think it's not worth commenting on! I read the account of one other person, who said he was crew aboard Nimitz.

Furthermore, while I'm not certain of this, the pilots may have been observing the object only through their cameras, not with their eyes, due to distance, and been subject to the same errors of observation we are watching the video.

Finally, I would actually tend to be suspicious of altering my worldview based on the testimony of a few individuals; statements like 'eight people either saw this or made it up' are how things like false religions are started. Not that I think the pilot(s) are lying in this case, just that he or they were not able to understand what they saw, but human testimony alone is highly unreliable -- what I mean is, I'm sure we could dig up all sorts of truly bizarre things to believe in based on the earnest testimony of a dozen people.

No, like I said, I think some of them -- maybe even all! -- are quite sincere, just misguided. I don't know about Gen. McCasland -- DeLonge tries to assure Podesta in the email's that McCasland's not a sceptic as he apparently professes to be -- from that, it's possible DeLonge is reading too much into McCasland's interest and is hearing what he wants to hear from him. Or not! We haven't actually heard from the general, unless I'm forgetting. Steve Justice, again, if he had access to reliable information about alien technology at his job, he shouldn't have left it for this new company. If he didn't, only heard things that made him interested, he's in the same boat as Mellon -- interest without anything to tell us.

Edit: I forgot to say, one forum poster hypothesized that what the servicemen saw in the Nimitz incident was a NASA in-atmosphere test that was conducted over the coast of California around the same time. The test was the 16th and it seems that the incident was the 14th, though I'm not sure the latter is certain:

https://www.metabunk.org/2004-uss-nimitz-tic-tac-ufo-flir-footage.t9190/page-7 (has both the carrier crew account and this). Note the mach speed of the craft is the same, though the elevation isn't. The point is, there are always other possibilities. An explanation might not be immediately obvious -- it might actually never be discovered -- but we don't have to resort to more esoteric claims to explain every strange incident. Sometimes I think we just go, 'Huh. Cool,' and move on -- until the mountain of evidence has grown so high we can't see past it. For now, I just don't think we have enough to stand on.

On the subject for a somewhat objective take that explores a range of aspects of the UFO phenomena I can highly recommend “Dark White” by Jim Schnabel.

It explores a number of very thought provoking ideas.

To sum up the rediculously complex UFO/UAP topic in a few paragraphs:

understanding of the topic requires a multidisciplinary approach, including embrasing new revaluations into the nature of consciousness. Science, politics and religion all would require massive paradigm shifts to even begin to comprehend the nature of ETI and the nature of reality itself.

The reverse engineering and active accumulation of advanced tech has been a reality for over half a century with at least 10 trillion dollars in Pentagon spending unaccounted for since 2001.

There’s been a moving timeline for ‘disclosure’ for decades with many scenarios proposed and dropped. Many different interest groups with conflicting agendas have attempted to use the knowledge of the UFO reality to gain power over certain groups or in certain situations but no one has successfully been able to ‘commodify’ disclusure beyond book sales and other entertainment.

if things seem to be speeding to an eventual blow-the-lid-off event, just remember, we’ve been ‘close’ before...

Don’t think we’ve been this close before, but yea they could still back it all down. Saw SETI was participating in a lot of debunker style activities recently and that’s surprising because Delonge met with the chairman of SETI the month before this all went public. I think it’s an orchestrated push/pull.

On 2/5/2018 at 10:36 PM, TasteTheRainbow said:

Don’t think we’ve been this close before, but yea they could still back it all down. Saw SETI was participating in a lot of debunker style activities recently and that’s surprising because Delonge met with the chairman of SETI the month before this all went public. I think it’s an orchestrated push/pull.

Or the prelude to the craziest False Flag in history

Big update tonight. They’re discussing how UFOs fly on CBS Las Vegas. Hope they go into a bit more detail than previous comments.

little bit of squee

Hour-long interview with the man who ran the Pentagon’s ufo program.

What’s the gist of the video?

On 2/9/2018 at 3:35 AM, Trevor Goodchild said:

What’s the gist of the video?

Most of the early criticisms from debunkers are kind of silly.

The summary I read (below) and surrounding comments suggest no new evidence -- Nimitz hyped again.

Can we all just stop and think?

Suppose 'Aliens' are real. We assume they have technology that allows them to travel at lightspeed or greater. Or at the very least, they have technology that allows them to 'probe' great distances navigating through star systems.

Just think ... if such an Alien race has this type of technology, how can their technology 'crash'? It can avoid at the very least asteroids, planets, stars, black holes, etc, etc, etc. The technology would have some way of communicating back home.

Basically, if there was such an Alien race, we as humans would not be able to detect them and certainly the technology wouldn't crash land onto earth.

So the stories of UFOs were created as a propaganda tool like many things the US Government has done to its population. At the time, people were not educated enough to understand what they were being lied to about. Just like today.