Seriously, how would this affect things: "No ship can equip more than four upgrade cards with an equipped value higher than 0." So, Chardaan Refit would not count toward the four. XX-23s on a Vaksai would not count toward the four. But Vectored Thrusters on a Vaksai would count toward the four.

Or this: "No ship can equip more total points in upgrade cards than 20% of the ship's base value, rounded up."

Could either of these be done seamlessly in the current game? (By "seamlessly," I don't mean "without affecting current builds." I'm asking if there are any problems with it in the rules, in game balance, or (most likely, IMO) in tournament logistics. I've been thinking about it some, and it seems to solve a lot of problems with the current game, but I don't see everything, so I'm outsourcing for thoughts.

3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Seriously, how would this affect things: "No ship can equip more than four upgrade cards with an equipped value higher than 0." So, Chardaan Refit would not count toward the four. XX-23s on a Vaksai would not count toward the four. But Vectored Thrusters on a Vaksai would count toward the four.

Or this: "No ship can equip more total points in upgrade cards than 20% of the ship's base value, rounded up."

Could either of these be done seamlessly in the current game? (By "seamlessly," I don't mean "without affecting current builds." I'm asking if there are any problems with it in the rules, in game balance, or (most likely, IMO) in tournament logistics. I've been thinking about it some, and it seems to solve a lot of problems with the current game, but I don't see everything, so I'm outsourcing for thoughts.

Interesting thought!

But 20% as hard limit would kill most Heavy Scyks, and probably Missile Z95s as well.

Too much math for what is supposed to be an easy game to get into, relatively speaking.

It’s a nice thought, but I think the real answer is in the game devs just not putting out over the top upgrade slot selections like they have been doing from time to time.

The only ones that are really abusive right now because of raw number of upgrades are Miranda and Nym. The Falcon or Dash aren’t broken, but largely depend on 4+ cards to make them work.

Maybe what we can do is change the MOV/points system such that any ship with X hit points count for half points. Perhaps set it at anything over 8 total hull and shield is eligible for half points. That way most every small base that isn’t abusive gets to escape it, and actually buffs the Uwing minorly by it not getting a half point status.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

It’s a nice thought, but I think the real answer is in the game devs just not putting out over the top upgrade slot selections like they have been doing from time to time.

The only ones that are really abusive right now because of raw number of upgrades are Miranda and Nym. The Falcon or Dash aren’t broken, but largely depend on 4+ cards to make them work.

Maybe what we can do is change the MOV/points system such that any ship with X hit points count for half points. Perhaps set it at anything over 8 total hull and shield is eligible for half points. That way most every small base that isn’t abusive gets to escape it, and actually buffs the Uwing minorly by it not getting a half point status.

What about instead of looking at the total amount of hitpoints on a ship, we look at the total amount of squad points? So the rule would read:
"Ship worth 40 squad points or more grant half their squad point score (rounded down) if they have lost half their combined hull and shields (rounded down) at the end of the match."

On the surface it looks like a good idea as it forces players to be more selective, however I don't think it's a good idea as you wouldn't be able to make a lot of "interesting but not very competitive" builds and would therefore probably do more damage to the fun/casual scene than the tournament scene (which would always find a way to adapt).

As an example, consider the Firespray, TIE Punisher, YV666, Upsilon shuttle and non-Miranda K-Wings. All of these ships have a large range of upgrades they can take but none of them are particularly competitive. Limiting them to 4 (even with extra 0pt upgrades) would just make them an even rarer site on the tabletop.

I like the first option. Not only does it eliminate bloated super ships, but might encourage using more generics as well.

I feel like the biggest problem with the half hit points for small bases only makes regeneration more prevalent. A T-70 X-Wing with with two damage cards and full shields (so a minimum of 5 damage delt) dosen't give the opponent anything, while Quickdraw with only shields removed (3 damage) gives up points? Sounds like a good way to eliminate Imperial squads.

Well in Epic the 4 limit was restricted to EPTs and secondary weapons. So funfact, you can have more crackshots in a 100 point competitive standard than you could in a 300 point Epic tournament.

I get the reasoning, Epic with its higher point limit is more prone to upgrade spam than the restrictive 100 point competitive. Which is why we never saw a 6 Crakc Black Tie Swarm in the Top 4. The Crack swarm needed its 4 EPTless Academy pilots to put more meat on the table.

As for putting the upgrade limit well it is kind of tricky especially since a lot of ships depend on their repaint released upgrades to correct things such as TIE 1x and Chardaan. Also Chardaan is not restricted to 4 in Epic as it is not a secondary weapon.

But it brings up a good point. How does that work for dual cards like the Arcaster. On one side it is just an upgrade on the othere it is not a secondary weapon. Does that mean if you bring 8 Heavy Scyks only 4 of them could be charged and the rest has to bee charging? A similar question could be asked for intensity but since dual EPTs share the same name on both sides I think we can safely say they fall under the 4 limit regardless of what side they are on.

Ships with too many upgrades have ALWAYS been the problem with this game. See Fat Han. See dash. Now see Dengar, and Miranda, and Nym. Also note the turret on EACH ONE.

All turrets should be a mobile firing arc in my opinion, would be very skillful and a more interesting mechanic.

Rubbish idea.

Nah. I'll never be able to run my tournament-winning Upsilon-Decimator build.

On 1/19/2018 at 4:53 PM, nikk whyte said:

Too much math for what is supposed to be an easy game to get into, relatively speaking.

Yeah, it is complex, but it's trying to simplify something that is becoming much more complex and is making it hard for people to get into the game.

On 1/19/2018 at 4:46 PM, Jeff Wilder said:

Seriously, how would this affect things: "No ship can equip more than four upgrade cards with an equipped value higher than 0." So, Chardaan Refit would not count toward the four. XX-23s on a Vaksai would not count toward the four. But Vectored Thrusters on a Vaksai would count toward the four.

Or this: "No ship can equip more total points in upgrade cards than 20% of the ship's base value, rounded up."

Could either of these be done seamlessly in the current game? (By "seamlessly," I don't mean "without affecting current builds." I'm asking if there are any problems with it in the rules, in game balance, or (most likely, IMO) in tournament logistics. I've been thinking about it some, and it seems to solve a lot of problems with the current game, but I don't see everything, so I'm outsourcing for thoughts.

Rule would probably need to be different for big ships (that were designed to equip a lot or especially have a title that costs points) but my friends and I were talking about just how crazy how large the upgrade card deck is. My QD+2 Rhos runs something like 16 upgrade cards and Miranda and Nym Run something like 22, which is getting close to the size of a damage deck.

My friends who "don't have time to read blog posts and forums about X-Wing, or prepare their squad before game night" are constantly complaining about "X-Wing : the card game" that I am playing (with 4-8 cards per ship, I understand the nickname). I feel like Scums were really built to be upgrade heavy, or maybe it's just because they appeared late enough in the game that "naked" built were already a thing of the past...

If FFG wanted to limit upgrades they wouldn’t have added titles, mods, cannons, systems, illicits, trash mechs, tech and whatever else might be materializing.

Every ship already has a hard limit, just that some ships have way more upgrade slots to fill. Larger ships naturally would have more slots. The problem might be the ‘medium’ bomber-type ships that can carry a ton of things including turrets yet don’t have the large base that cramps maneuverability, or the 1/2 points for being damaged. It’s not the upgraded, it’s the ships themselves, the upgrades just push things over the top.

How hard would it be to FAQ that a handful of small ships be treated as large for some purposes? Or that all (non mobile) PWTs and TLTs require (focus) or (TL)? Is that any sillier than limiting ships to 4 upgrades or total squad point cost per ship?

I'd prefer they just nerf the stuff that's overpowered now, and ...

hmm. Actually, this is a simple fix that might work.

--

At this point, the game is seriously showing its age by how much is banned/errata'd. Though, I guess Magic did fine with that. Though, I remember busting out some old over-powered cards to get a one up.