13 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I think the way to fix Miranda is to make her ability Primary weapon only. there isn't much down side to rolling 1 less die on one attack with a TLT to get one shield back. Adding 1 die for a shield to make a super Harpoon is just stupid.

Part of me says that gaining an attack die (a potential extra damage) at the cost of taking a damage yourself is a fair trade. That's what Feedback Array offers, kinda. However, that super-low opportunity cost of using a TLT to regenerate really breaks the math. Personally, I'd like to see Miranda just exclude turrets (all turret secondary weapons? all attacks not in firing arc?) to start things off, and to see how that feels. I think it'd be more costly to use her ability to add a die if you had to drop down to a 1-die PWT attack in order to regenerate a shield. Then it's almost like Corran: a bigger attack one turn, and essentially no-attack later. It might not be enough, but my preference is to go bit by bit, and do more later if need be.

Another thought occurred to me: what if Miranda had to receive a facedown damage card to add an attack die? That's damage that couldn't be regenerated, that'd never go away. However, that'd also eliminate the counter-play of removing her shields.

Hrm.

6 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Some of us remember the times when it wasn't worth it to bring named pilots. It is a complicated issue.

I've been playing the game since it was released, and I think there were always a few named pilots who were ahead of the pack. Vader and Han, to name a few, and later Dash. Some ships (Bomber, Y-Wing, Gunboat, etc.) tend to be a little better with generics, and some ships like the ones I listed (and most ships now) are better with the top ace. But I do agree that it would be nice to see the PS3-PS7 pilots do better. Those have almost all, generally speaking, been pretty bad the whole time through.

39 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Part of me says that gaining an attack die (a potential extra damage) at the cost of taking a damage yourself is a fair trade. That's what Feedback Array offers, kinda. However, that super-low opportunity cost of using a TLT to regenerate really breaks the math.

This is what I was trying to say, 1 shield for an opportunity for extra damage is a fair trade. But adding in TLT just makes it a no brainer. With TLT there virtually isnt a cost to adding the extra red die. But as Jeff stated in his OP, fix the actual issue, not paintbrush the entire chassis.

9 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

This is what I was trying to say, 1 shield for an opportunity for extra damage is a fair trade. But adding in TLT just makes it a no brainer. With TLT there virtually isnt a cost to adding the extra red die. But as Jeff stated in his OP, fix the actual issue, not paintbrush the entire chassis.

So what you are saying is that isn't Miranda that is the problem but TLT? Guess I can't argue with that.

32 minutes ago, mcgreag said:

So what you are saying is that isn't Miranda that is the problem but TLT? Guess I can't argue with that.

It's Mirandas ability in conjunction with its use on secondary weapons.

2 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

This is what I was trying to say, 1 shield for an opportunity for extra damage is a fair trade. But adding in TLT just makes it a no brainer. With TLT there virtually isnt a cost to adding the extra red die. But as Jeff stated in his OP, fix the actual issue, not paintbrush the entire chassis.

Miranda was actually a nicely implemented version of Regen IMO. She's easy to put damage on, moves slow, and can't just **** off and regen all her shields out of combat like Corran/Poe with R2D2 can. SLAM helps her somewhat, but she then loses the ability to regen for a turn. I've played and played against several autoblaster or turretless Miranda's and she's good, but she doesn't feel unfair.

TLT Miranda is a completely different story, because she can have her cake and eat it too. The TLT has always been a problem card, which FFG seem incapable or unwilling to fix. I still can't believe it escaped the great nerfing unscathed.

I think if you nerf the TLT in a way that hurts/stops it comboing with Miranda's ability, then you'll see a huge drop-off in Miranda use. I'm not sure what that fix is though? Maybe just dropping the TLT from 3x Reds to 2 might be enough?

9 minutes ago, CRCL said:

Miranda was actually a nicely implemented version of Regen IMO. She's easy to put damage on, moves slow, and can't just **** off and regen all her shields out of combat like Corran/Poe with R2D2 can. SLAM helps her somewhat, but she then loses the ability to regen for a turn. I've played and played against several autoblaster or turretless Miranda's and she's good, but she doesn't feel unfair.

TLT Miranda is a completely different story, because she can have her cake and eat it too. The TLT has always been a problem card, which FFG seem incapable or unwilling to fix. I still can't believe it escaped the great nerfing unscathed.

I think if you nerf the TLT in a way that hurts/stops it comboing with Miranda's ability, then you'll see a huge drop-off in Miranda use. I'm not sure what that fix is though? Maybe just dropping the TLT from 3x Reds to 2 might be enough?

I think Mirandas Regen is well implemented too, I think it should just be for primary weapons as regenning is such a boon when 1 hit point can mean life or death.

If TLT was dropped to 2 attack die each shot but was a range 1-3. I would be OK with that.

Imagine if Miranda was Primary weapon only on her pilot ability. She would still be very versatile, but her insane TLT and Ordnance effeciency would be dealt with

I wonder if making TLT large ship only (makes sense that only a larger ship would have the chassis to mount such a powerful weapon) would be a good nerf?

Sure, the K-Wing and TIE Agressor lose the ability to use a shipped turret and quad TLT y-wings stops being a thing but is that a good trade-off?

It also nerfs my other gripe: double (read: quadruple) tap Ghost with docked Phantom...

12 minutes ago, impspy said:

I wonder if making TLT large ship only would be a good nerf?

Unless I'm forgetting a ship, that just means the VCX. And that probably 9 times out of 10 means a double tapping Ghost with the Phantom docked. considering some of the negative buzz I've heard around that kind of build during its first heyday, I'm gonna guess no.

look, if you want to limit TLTs in that kind of way, just make it HWK only.

12 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Unless I'm forgetting a ship, that just means the VCX. And that probably 9 times out of 10 means a double tapping Ghost with the Phantom docked. considering some of the negative buzz I've heard around that kind of build during its first heyday, I'm gonna guess no.

look, if you want to limit TLTs in that kind of way, just make it HWK only.

Ah, good point, you are correct.

9 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

This is what I was trying to say, 1 shield for an opportunity for extra damage is a fair trade. But adding in TLT just makes it a no brainer. With TLT there virtually isnt a cost to adding the extra red die. But as Jeff stated in his OP, fix the actual issue, not paintbrush the entire chassis.

I'm not entirely sure there weren't issues with Warden bombing, but I've said that.

But yeah. The biggest issue with Miranda's pilot ability is that it's too easy to use TLT. It might not be the only issue, but one step at a time.

//

2-Attack TLTs don't make enough of a difference, I think. However, it isn't as horrible of an idea as "crits don't count" that I've seen some folks suggest, which is just painfully un-intuitive and needlessly complex. First, you could still Accuracy Corrector on a Havoc Scurrg or any VCX, and that'd be almost exactly the same (you'd lose the 1 out of 8 attacks when AccC TLT will score 3 hits...). Second, I don't think it would fix the "unfun" aspect of TLT: that it is often enough two unavoidable damage. I think I've read that a TLT does about the same damage on most ships as a 3-dice "normal" attack. However, against a normal attack, each marginal evade reduces the damage by 1. With a TLT, many evades mean nothing. Roll 2 evades against a 3-dice TLT shot, and you're still taking the same damage as rolling 0 evades. This isn't fun. I'm behind an rock on a Punisher? I want my lucky triple evade to save me from all damage, rather than have the second shot still plink me for 1.

Personally, I'd limit the TLT to two shots only if attacking someone in your arc. Now positioning matters, and the damage output goes down dramatically outside arc.

I'd supplement this with a new, cheaper (3 or 4 points) turret with Range 2-3, which if it hits, cancels all but one hit or crit result. So it'd be like a single-attack TLT, but it could crit. So there'd be the cheaper low damage potential long range, the long range with higher upside if you can get arc, as well as a variety of shorter range turrets (unavoidable but super narrow ABT, Dorsal which is easy but weaker, Synced which hits harder but requires set-up, and Ion with control). I think such an array of turrets would lead to more interesting list-building choices, as well as slightly improved on-table experiences.

With TLT, it's not just that it does too much damage-over-time. It's that it does too much damage in a boring way without reasonable counterplay.

once they break the ts/genius combo nym goes back to being subpar again.

As for op, being specific won't change a thing. FFG will still look at the metrics they can behind the argument before tweaking because we are the forums, and we'll overreact about anything. It seem you had a hard on for wardens, once they were op too. Was call tlt /tactician.

Still works, but now you actually have to focus fire instead of just stressing everything into the ground while you fly circles around the map and slam away with the 1st one to get focused when he looks like he's in danger...... it's a case of adapt buddy. It's not like their adv slam bombing + sabine wasn't an issue before nym came along to steal their place or they cant use ei as well (you just cant spam them now.....).

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 4:26 PM, Jeff Wilder said:

The point is to be specific. Unspecific complaints about very specific problems are bad.